Major Flaws in the ESL writers' debate

Although the two principal architects and extremists of the 'ESL Vs Native Speakers` debate are no longer active members of this forum, I have noted a lingering , residual debate that fruitlessly attempt to demarcate the essay industry`s players into two distinct groups ie:

a)The 'qualified`, honest native(read American) writers and;
b)The 'unqualified`, dishonest ESL writers.

Let there be no doubt: majority of ESL writers are unqualified to write any research paper in the English language due to linguistic incompetence just as majority of native speakers are unqualified to write any research paper due to their technical/research incompetence. Majority of native speakers try in vain to convince students that simply because they`ve had access to the English language since childhood, they`re qualified to produce decent research papers. However, evidence available points to the contrary; most of the native speakers may write in a fairly decent style but go ahead and produce a technically flawed paper due to their technical/research inadequacies. In fact, from my experience, most of American 'professional` writers simply produce nicely written, grammatically correct papers that painfully lack substance/depth/critical analysis. Further, the American educational system-at least in its current form- woefully fails to equip students with research skills and frameworks that catalyze analytical thinking.

Therefore, American writers deceive themselves- and their clients as well- that simply because they can talk/write 'fluently`, they automatically earn the tag 'professional writers`. What these American writers don`t realize is that, in most cases, they produce feeble papers that wouldn`t earn any student a credit or even a pass. However, their clients are too daft or too carefree to realize this. For example, if members can check some free papers posted by a former native speaker` writer called Pheelyks, they will realize that although the guy could write 2-3 paragraphs without making glaring grammatical errors, he couldn`t save his skin writing a strong, argumentative and technically sound research paper.

Let no one mistake my intentions: I am not at all trying to excuse the rampant dishonesty/lack of skills synonymous with ESL writers. My point is fairly simple: A qualified, professional writer should possess these MANDATORY skills:

a) good writing skills;
b) good analytical skills;
c) good research skills;
d) good reasoning skills;
e) good argumentative skills and;
f) a decent level of intelligence.

However, students must realize that it takes more than having decent command of the English language to write a high quality paper. Students shouldn`t simply fall for native speakers and fail to realize that some of these writers are the most horrible in the industry. Additionally, students must not fall for the dishonesty associated with ESL writers in order to get a cheap deal.

a post-colonial critique of the essay writing industry

This isn't true. Most native speakers that I know (and I know many) don't try to write professionally and would loathe the task of writing essays for a living. There are also unquestionably some native writers that shouldn't be writing, in this industry and in other areas. I don't think anyone has advanced the argument you suggest (that being a native English speaker is the only qualification for being a good writer).

I also don't see the problem with the essays you've linked to. They're not the greatest, but there's a decent amount of citation, critical analysis, and so on. You've also obsessed over Pheelyks' supposed incompetence in all areas of writing, yet here acknowledge that "the guy could write 2-3 paragraphs without making glaring grammatical errors." The more you and editor75 go on about how stupid and crazy "the guy" and WritersBeware were, the more stupid and crazy you seem.

I've always taken a much different approach based on an entirely different distinction:
c) The writer who is honest with clients about his/her nationality & native language fluency; and
d) The writer who is dishonest about either or both.
I have no problem with "c" regardless of nationality or ESL status. But the client is entitled to make a fully informed choice without being deceived.


Ironically. (given the chosen title of this thread), that argument is based on a fundamental logical flaw: namely, that "if some A are not C, then all B must be C." (A=Native Speakers; B=ESL Writers; C=Good Academic Writers). It presumes that there's necessarily something about just being ESL that automatically means ESLs all research and argue better than their American counterparts and that they automatically fulfill all the other criteria for being good academic writers. Quite obviously, that's not true.


Considering that the whole argument about "ESL vs NS" is mainly of concern only to American students attending American colleges, your point would seem to be moot, even assuming it's true for sake of argument. Your argument also seems to ignore the fact that if American students are given the choice between an essay that "only" meets American educational standards but reads and sounds like it was written by an American and an essay that meets "higher" educational standards but reads and sounds like it was obviously not written by an American, they would prefer the latter. I'd reject that presumption completely.

Similarly, since there is a difference between the academic standards in the US and the UK, American-educated writers have the same obligation not to try to pretend to be UK-educated. I've lost (or declined outright) plenty of UK work and I'm always more hesitant to take advanced UK work for that reason and I've never tried to argue that a UK customer "shouldn't care" where I was educated or that all that matters is that I'm an English NS. Clients (everywhere) have the right to decide for themselves what criteria they want in a writer. The vast majority of American customers care at least as much if not more about language fluency and a native sound as they do about the depth and critical quality of the work. I'm not suggesting that either is more important than the other, just that it's always the customer's right to make that decision with all the facts presented honestly by any writer offering his services.


Without disagreeing with anything on that list I'd simply like to add two other criteria to your list of requirements while also suggesting that failing to meet any of the criterion (including mine) never means that any writer necessarily meets any (let alone all) of the others:

g) written language fluency in any language in which work is being produced; and
h) complete honesty in answering any questions from prospective clients, whether or not the writer happens to agree that the answer to those questions "should matter to the client.

All along, i had ignored your spineless prattles but not anymore. Look, whenever i invoke pheelyks into my analysis, i assume that members will not take pheelyks as an individual but as the (im)perfect representative of the 'We Americans are great writers' debates. In fact, he perfectly exemplified the rogue attitudes and incompetence prevalent amongst many incompetent 'native' writers like yourself.

I'd not be surprised if you are closely associated with him. You come across as a conceited and proud good-for-nothing struggling writer who must hang around this site, trying to trap students into your pitiable plate.

I guess this route was taken by others before you, so you aren't re-inventing any wheel, clueless dullard.


Of course your incompetence cannot allow you to see the structural/analytical problems with those essays. Further, your lack of experience in proper referencing cannot allow you to see how the essays are referenced inappropriately. I took time to match the purported references in the essays with the ACTUAL implied sources and the mismatch was over 45%.

Go and up your research skills before marketing yourself as a qualified writer.
You lack the prerequisite research and technical skills to w*0re yourself as a professional writer.

queen i appreciate your writing and your insights on the topic, but if you're a native language speaker, you need a native language essay it's as simple as that. for most students an ESL essay might as well be in Italian or French, it does them no good.

for all i know your crusade against phyleeks might be rooted in something meaningful, but your criticism of his work on the grounds that it doesn't meet your ideal standard of excellence is off-based. not all students want top-tier writing or want to shell out the cash that truly entails. so essentially you're claiming that the corner pizza shop is a fraud because it doesn't serve gourmet pies.

Exactly.

Since you quoted it, let me fix something I didn't catch in the 5 minutes we can still edit posts here:


I meant that the argument also seems to presume that if American students are given the choice between an essay that "only" meets American educational standards but reads and sounds like it was written by an American and an essay that meets "higher" educational standards but reads and sounds like it was obviously not written by an American, they would prefer the latter. I'd reject that presumption completely.

So I take it to mean that QS sees both types of writers as scammers and experts at misrepresentation? The ENL writers cannot be blamed for technical incompetence. Most of them identify the papers they can write immediately. They inform the client if they are not capable of completing the work and give them an option to work with a referred writer for the order. Most writers use this practice so that they can still earn a bit from the client, and they can help other ENL writers in the process. Nothing wrong with that.

The reason why these flaws exist in the work of ESL writers, and why ENL writers can get away with just getting by with the essays they write is simple. The students who hire them do not hold either type of writer to the highest level of writing standards. What is the highest level of writing / standard? Whatever level the writer considers his highest level should be multiplied by at least 100%. Why? The students are paying for the service so merely accomplishing the task at the expected level, or the writer's idea of his highest level of writing should not be enough. It is up to the student to force the highest writing level out of his writer regardless of writer type. Never be satisfied with the work even if it looks like it will deliver the expected grade. For the money being paid, the students always deserve better than the best the writer has to offer in terms of writing and research skills.