EssayWritingService.com

what harm would there be in the companies making the essays available either on the web or to the universities if the students are not allowed to use them as their own work. Surely if these essays are being quoted by the students and properly sourced it does not matter if they are widely available for other students and universities to be able to access them.

In the UK no usage of essay writing sites is allowed by the students not even if they quote the site. How do students in America reference the work they have obtained from the essay writing companies? Surely unless the student knows the identity of the writer they cannot give credit to the author for their input.

The student quotes the COMPANY, not the particular writer. The freelance writer has absolutely no ownership of the material, as he or she signed a work-for-hire contract with the company.

Why should research companies cooperate in the SLIGHTEST with the universities that bash research companies at every opportunity?

one harm to the company would be in the time and resources required to update and maintain the essay bank on the web. do you know how many essays are completed a day? i think i wrote about 5,000 pages last year (conservative estimate). with a company that employs 60+ writers, you can bet the time and resources required to make the essays publicly available would impose a substantial resource drain. that's why the government shouldn't do it.

unless you are suggesting that the government provide financial incentives to support the development and upkeep of these required websites. after all, that seems fair, doesn't it? i don't see taxpayers accepting such a plan, however.

making the essays available to individual universities would also be insanely expensive. would the company need to send the essay to every university in the country? in the world?

is that really your standard for a law? if it doesn't do too much bad, let's do it? i mean... yeesh.


savvy students will stop ordering essays and just wait until essays become publicly available via the mandated, public websites... so such a "legal requirement" would be the equivalent of a death sentence for the companies. that's another disadvantage to your proposition.

you know, what you are proposing violates the basic principles of publishing. why do you think books aren't published on the web free of charge? yeah... because if they are free to everyone, then no one rational will be willing to pay.


What laws ban the use of essay writing sites at the university level? if that is the case, why are you exploring legal options to restrain the activities of essay companies? It would seem that the case is closed in the UK.


in the case of some companies, clients know the name of their writer. in the case of others, as WB explained, the client can reference the company. i would expect that referencing the company is the norm since the writer does not own the paper after it is written.

so, struggling, will you be answering my question about the % of students who use essays to cheat or are you conceding that the number of cheaters is roughly 2-3% of all consumers? do you think it's reasonable to impose obligations upon an industry where that low a percentage of consumers misuse the product? I think it's pretty ridiculous, the sort of policy attempt that won't accomplish anything but makes the politicians feel good about doing something.

after all, more people use the internet and books to plagiarize than essays (again, this is backed up by research). so... if you are really interested in decreasing plagiarism, i'd suggest you focus your attention on areas likely to generate better results.

There are no laws banning the use of essay writing sites, these are the rules set by all the universities. Unlike in the US the only acceptable research that can be used for essays is books, articles and internet accessed websites (this does not include essay writing sites, but does include home office websites and other such agencies).


I am at present still compiling my research on this area. This is probably more of a problem in the UK then in the US as obviously in the US students are entitled to use custom written papers within their essays, whereas in the UK the universities regard this as plagairism.


If students are only supposed to be using essays as inspiration for their own work they are still likely to pay for that inspiration, after all that is why they buy text books or get library books for their work.


Students can get library books for free in the UK but the book selling industry is not affected by the fact that the books are available for free. I once needed a specific book for the course I was doing and as it was a new issue was having difficulty finding a copy in the library. I went and asked one of the staff there and they kindly ordered the book (which they paid for) and then lent the book to me (hence saving me £40).

At present the government in UK are examining the problem of students using essay writing sites in the light of the problem last year where a relatively high number of 6th form students failed as a result of using these sites rather than doing the research themselves. They are considering putting more emphasis on exams as they can control the amount of cheating easier if the student has to do the work in an exam room situation.

As I said above I guess this is more a UK problem as students in the UK are not allowed to cite essay writing companies as sources for their work as it is against the universities regulations. If you access any UK university website and look at what they regard as plagairism you will note that all the universities in UK ban the use of essay writing sites in any way shape or form.

Um... are you sure about all universities in the UK banning the use of essay writing sites? That claim piqued my interest so I did a random search of a few UK universities. Oxford does explicitly ban the use of essay writing sites, but I found several others that make no mention of professional sites as being the automatic equivalent of plagiarism. For example:

The University of Brighton's Plagiarism Guide:

staffcentral.brighton.ac.uk/clt/resources/documents/plagiarism%20awareness% 20pack%202007-8%20finalfrom%20registry.doc

The University of Edinburgh:
aaps.ed.ac.uk/regulations/Plagiarism/Guidance/StudentGuidance.doc

Neither of these schools mention professional services. They both stress the need to cite one's sources, which is about what I'd expect. I have no doubt that some UK schools may explicitly ban the use of essay writing sites but it certainly does not appear that all do so. I am certainly interested in knowing where you gained the information that all universities ban any use of essay sites.

Actually, I got the 2-3% figure primarily from 2 studies based in the U.K., though US studies found similar results. If you search this forum, I posted links to the studies.

Do you have any links on this effort? I'd like to find out more about it. If we are thinking of the same situation, what I had read previously was that there was a high rate of plagiarism, not that there was a specifically a problem with plagiarism through essay sites, but I'd certainly like to read more about the subject.

Those sites do recommend students to read from the below site

jiscpas.ac.uk/documents/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20FAQ.pdf

which is clearly against the use of essay writing sites as sources.

In the UK if you were to cite an essay writing company as a source questions would be asked as to the use made of this source especially as the essay itself has to be specifically ordered and is not available to view by anyone but the student who bought it. Any references used have to be verifiable by the examining body in the UK.

Will respond to rest of your post later am having to work overtime today

All quotations in this are given in italics, since I noticed it was tough to read otherwise.

Actually, only one of the schools link to that particular document that I saw. And, both link to a lot of different sites, including American sites, on how to avoid plagiarism. Now, when they are linking to American sites on how to avoid plagiarism, I think you can see the problem. For example, both of them link to Indiana University's site about plagiarism, which a lot of other schools do as well. IU defines plagiarism as:

"Plagiarism is defined as presenting someone else's work, including the work of other students, as one's own. Any ideas or materials taken from another source for either written or oral use must be fully acknowledged, unless the information is common knowledge. What is considered "common knowledge" may differ from course to course.

a. A student must not adopt or reproduce ideas, opinions, theories, formulas, graphics, or pictures of another person without acknowledgment.

b. A student must give credit to the originality of others and acknowledge an indebtedness whenever:

1. Directly quoting another person's actual words, whether oral or written;

2. Using another person's ideas, opinions, or theories;

3. Paraphrasing the words, ideas, opinions, or theories of others, whether oral or written;

4. Borrowing facts, statistics, or illustrative material; or

5. Offering materials assembled or collected by others in the form of projects or collections without acknowledgment. "

indiana.edu/~istd/definition.html

A fairly lengthy definition of plagiarism that includes essay sites not at all.
Now, this definition fits the definition offered by both Edinburgh and Brighton. Brighton defines plagiarism as:

"Definition of academic misconduct
2.1 Academic misconduct includes, but is not limited to:
- Plagiarism and collusion. Where a student submits work originated in sum or in part by someone else, with or without their consent but without acknowledgement;

- Falsification or fabrication of results, data or references;
- Duplication. Where a student submits work for assessment that is the same as, or broadly similar to, work submitted earlier for academic credit, without acknowledgement of the previous submission;

- Cheating in an invigilated examination. Where a student copies from unauthorised material or from another student's script within an examination room, communicates with another person during an examination, consults information or individuals while absent from the examination room, or attempts to gain a higher grade by fraudulent means;

- Personation. Where one person assumes the identity of another with the intention of gaining unfair advantage for that person;
- Ghosting. Where a student submits as their own, work that has been done as a whole or in part by another person on their behalf, or deliberately makes available or seeks to make available material to another student with the intention that the material is to be used by the other student to commit academic misconduct.

2.2 For the purpose of these regulations, the term `work` is taken as any academic work undertaken towards summative assessment." (link above)
Now Brighton's mention of ghosting is an interesting one, but as you can see, they specifically say ghosting is a problem when a student submits the work as their own or when the ghosting is completed by individuals intending for the student to use the work for commit academic fraud. Neither of those cases apply to legit services. In fact, the wording is so close to the wording used by legit services that I have to wonder if they didn't write the definition with essay companies in mind, but not in a bad way.

Now, Edinburgh defines plagiarism as:

"The following are examples of plagiarism:
1. Including in one's own work extracts from another person's work without the use of quotation marks and the acknowledgement of the source (which may be a book, a research paper, a web source, another student's work, a lecturer's comments or class notes, data, lab work or pictures etc.).

2. Summarising another person's work without acknowledgement.
3. Using the ideas or help of another person without acknowledgement of the source (Help can include, for example, the provision of materials or assistance from technicians).

4. Copying the work of another student, with or without their knowledge or agreement.
5. Collaborating with students or others on a piece of assessed work that should be completed and submitted individually .
6. Cutting and pasting from electronic sources without explicit acknowledgement of the URL / author, and without explicitly marking the pasted text in inverted commas, or labelling the source of the diagram or illustration. The inclusion of large amounts of such pasted material, even if acknowledged, always raises doubts about how much of the work presented should be credited to the student. The same applies to over-quotation from a traditional, printed source." (link above)

Again, no mention in the slightest of any problem with professional writing services helping the student. Edinburgh even specifically states that getting a proofreader is NOT plagiarism.

"- Will I be accused of plagiarism if I get a proof-reader to check my work?
Proof-reading is defined as reading to detect errors to be corrected. It is good practice to proof-read your work before submitting it for assessment. This enables you to check for errors and make sure that you are happy with the way that you have presented your findings, arguments or ideas, before the work is marked. You may also choose to ask someone else to read through the work for you and see if they can spot any spelling, grammar or punctuation mistakes, so that you can correct these before submitting the work for assessment. Proof-reading your work in this way is good academic practice and will not lead to accusations of plagiarism" (Edinburg, link above).

I found this interesting since I do a LOT of proofreading. I assume you don't have a problem with essay sites providing proofreading services?

I find it odd that you are so committed to distinguishing UK and US schools when UK schools rely upon US schools for their definition of plagiarism. I don't understand why you would use a link about plagiarism that is not used by all schools instead of simply using the schools' own definition of plagiarism as outlined in the student handbook.

Furthermore, I don't think that link is as anti-essay sites as you'd like it to be. Sure, it says students shouldn't turn in purchased essays as their own (obviously) but it doesn't say that all essay site use is plagiarism or bad. It does mention a study that says essays bought are generally poor quality, which is funny, but not quite the same thing as condemning all use.

Of course I have no problem with proofreading and neither would any university as proofrerading is only checking someone else's work for grammatical errors and punctuation. Proofreading is not in the least bit concerned with checking the actual content. With proofreading the student has done all their own research and written it in their own words.


online.northumbria.ac.uk/faculties/art/information_studies/Imri/J i scpas/site/adv_study_ref.asp

This links to the study mentioned above by the JISC

If you care to go further into the Edinburgh website you will note that they use the JISC software for plaigarism detection

aaps.ed.ac.uk/regulations/Plagiarism/Intro.htm


Although there are links to american sites on plagairism there is definetely a different attitude taken towards the use of essay writing sites in the UK then there is in America.

Many of the universities in the UK have recently started giving talks to students on a regular basis concerning plagairism and what kind of material would be considered to be plagairised. This is because they have realised that the university guidelines are often not specific enough in explaining non accepted material.

When I did my first degree quite some time ago we were allowed to use lecture notes without citing these as a source but now even these have to be cited, along with ideas submitted by another student.

At the end of the day I am neither condemning nor condoning the use of such sites. I am merely exploring the attitudes of universities in the Uk and overseas towards the use of these sites and analysing how each of these institutes would regard such usage.

Lavinia I believe you have stated once before that you only write for american students (from some of your threads I have read) therefore obviously students will have cited your research in their work as is allowed in the US. My point is that so far my research has shown that in the UK the universities will not allow a student to cite an essay writing site as a source of research. This information comes not only from internet research but also a questionaire that I compiled for use in my thesis which I sent to all 106 universities in the UK. I am still waiting for some of these to be returned but to date all have stated the same in regard to the use of essay writing sites.

Obviously as I am using this data for my thesis I cannot publish the questionaire on here. Once my research has been completed and submitted I will be able to give you a definitive answer as to the percentages of universities that MIGHT allow use of an essay writing site in UK (so far that percentage is zero from the sample of questionaires that have been returned).

There is obviously little point in submitting such a questionaire to US universities as they clearly allow such usage. My comparison in my thesis will be with other countries and the UK to show that there is a global difference in the usage of such sites. I am not suggesting that the UK approach should be adopted universally I am merely exploring the use of such sites from a UK perspective, which of course has led to a discussion on the classification on plagiarism.

Hey stupid, here's that context of that line you quoted from me:


Now let me put you down once more. ^_^ Obviously, the quote that you took was used out of context. What I was arguing was this: Since genuine U.S. companies claim to not allow their customers to hand in their essays while non-American companies posing as American openly allow their customers to hand in the essays that they buy as is, then the two entities cater to two different markets. The genuine U.S. companies cater to students who don't want to cheat! Who only want to buy essays at ridiculously high prices so that they can review them, learn from them, and cite them as a reference. On the other hand, non-American companies cater to those you refer to as cheaters; students who intend to submit the papers that they buy as is.

Wow, you are such an incredible IDIOT (and a tad snappy, due to all of the smackdowns lately). My previous response was quite clear. Brush-up on your comprehension skills in the English language.

Yep.. this is a variation of your standard response every time you get OWNED. ^_^

Here's my previous response:

"Your fraudulent employers LIE to customers by falsely claiming to be AMERICAN and BRITISH, which fools American and British customers into ordering simply because the price is lower (made possible due to the fact that foreign sites pay ESL writers MUCH lower wages)."

PRICE and LOCATION are the all-important issues, NOT disclaimer text. However, since you are in dire need of me to utterly humiliate you yet again, here is a quote from your fraudulent employer's site, besttermpaper.com[DND*]:

"The purpose of Universal Research LLC is to provide unique research that is intended for use in your further works and should be used as a model work."

besttermpaper .com/terms-and-conditions.html

Your lying employer states the above on the site, yet communicates the exact opposite via LIVE CHAT. How do you explain THAT? What's your excuse NOW, a**hole?


You are claiming that you ONLY receive orders from students who openly plan to cheat. What in the bloody hell does THAT have to do with the vast majority of your American customers who choose your site based on the fact that you intentionally fool them into believing that you are American?

Let's set aside--just for a second--the average, American customer's inherent expectation that an AMERICAN writer will be completing his or her project, thereby avoiding the need to correct an ESL writer's plethora of mistakes. Now, what do you say to the thousands of American consumers every month who simply wish to keep their money on American soil, but you ROB them of that right? What do you say to American clients who do not believe in outsourcing because it hurts the American laborer, yet you FOOL into violating their own principles because you LIE to them about being AMERICAN?

ROFLMAO!!!!! You sound like the Martin Luther King Jr. of American essay writers. :D Still I say, it's all about quality, prices, and consumer freedom. We can give American customers better prices for quality essays and these are prices that the typical American writer just can't afford to compete with. We (or at least, I) offer customers freedom to submit the essays that they buy. This is something that you claim American writers would never do. All your stupid talk about genuineness of the company, outsourcing issues (Haha!!!), and the like aren't even minor issues... they're non-issues. :p

If they're non-issues then stop supporting a company that lies about the identity of its writers.

it's really clear that the lies are widespread and believed by both writers and consumers alike, as demonstrated by the posts on this board by writers who STILL think EWwriters and Academia are American.

this is such an old issue. freedom suggests accurate knowledge. your company lies to consumers. falsehoods remove a person's freedom.

i'm not sure you can rely on the old "better prices for quality essays" when essaybay is quoting 60$ per page either. rip off artists to the extreme.

QUOTE OF THE YEAR:


As Don King would say, "Only in the THIRD WORLD."


EXACTLY. Why does your fraudulent employer go out of his way to intentionally lie to his customers about "non-issues" like writers' location and qualifications?

Your Ukrainian employer includes the following lie (or similar) on all of his dirty sites:
"We hire only native English-peaking writers in the US."

If it's such a "non-issue," instruct him to communicate the TRUTH to customers:
"Our company is based in Ukraine, and the majority of our writers are ESL speakers."

His DIRTY BUSINESS will collapse overnight.

Where is your proof that consumers do not want to outsource. From the posts I have read on here hardly any ask for recommendations of genuine American sites or genuine UK sites, most just want to know which sites will provide quality essays, deliver on time, be reasonably priced etc.

From what I have read (and I have no axe to grind as I don't work for any company) most of the students on here don't seem to be bothered where their writer is based so long as they get what they pay for and in the vast majority of recent posts they want to submit the work as their own.

Maybe we could start a thread to find out how many would not use a site if they knew where the site was based and the reason why they would avoid sites on the basis of location.

Struggling, your answer really bothers me b/c I think you are just looking at this wrong.

In what industry is it acceptable for a business to lie to the consumer? Not creatively describe its products and services through marketing or advertising, but to make false claims about the qualifications of its employees?

My guess is that you will have a tough time coming up with an answer. I do not understand why you would find it acceptable for a business to lie to its consumers, in this or any other industry.

^______^ My points EXACTLY.


Hey, it's a living. It's not like I'm selling bad essays to students. They usually get very high marks from my work so I really don't see the problem. Besides, I've tried getting into one of your genuine American companies. I gave them my writing samples and they accepted me but then they asked me to fill out an IRS form which I obviously cannot do. So what choice do you have for me, Lavinia? Just ignore the profitable opportunity right in front of me and walk away?

Oh please, so your only choice is to write or starve? Aren't you the one who brags about how much you make in your day job and then you write on top of it?

Besides, you don't have to ignore the profitable opportunity right in front of you. Set up a website and get to work. I've stated a few times that I think a well educated, articulate ESL writer would make a killing with consumers by offering a quality product at a reduced price. You don't have to lie, yet you choose to do so b/c that's what's easy.

Or work for a company that hires ESL writers and doesn't lie to its consumers. If you really think that the qualifications don't matter, then working for a company that doesn't lie shouldn't impact your profits at all, right?

Or do other freelancing. There are tons of writing jobs on the net. It's not like anyone is forcing you to work for a company that cheats its consumers.

Lavinia beat me to it! I await your answer, struggling.

By the way, Lavinia's question is one of many that EW_writer simply can't answer. He will probably offer his usual "students don't care about the truth, only quality writing" nonsense, but the simple fact is that the average, ESL writer in the essay industry is unqualified to professionally write for American customers. EW_writer is also likely to suggest, quite humorously, that the average, native English-speaking writer in the essay industry is NO BETTER. Give me a freakin' break! (Yes, he has already claimed such in previous posts.)


"Spoken" like a true criminal.


BINGO was his namo!

I didn't say that. >.< I'm just saying that the opportunity's just too good to pass up. :)


IRS remember?


But it's the best paying one that's one there so far. Perhaps in time Essaybay would overtake EW, but that's still far from happening at the moment. ^_^

[quote=Lavinia]In what industry is it acceptable for a business to lie to the consumer? Not creatively describe its products and services through marketing or advertising, but to make false claims about the qualifications of its employees?

My guess is that you will have a tough time coming up with an answer. I do not understand why you would find it acceptable for a business to lie to its consumers, in this or any other industry.

Lavinia I am not for one minute suggesting that it is right to lie to the customer. The point I was making is that from the posts I have read on here very few (if any) seem to be bothered about where the company is based. All they are concerned with is not getting ripped off with shoddy work or no work at all.

As I said before I don't actually work for any company so therefore have nothing to win or gain from defending either side. WB commented that Americans want to keep the work in the US, I was questioning were the evidence for this assertion is as there seems to be a distinct lack of people on here asking for genuine US or genuine UK sites to approach. Most just want to know companies who offer good value for money etc

Just so everyone would know. I'm placing a moratorium on posting here until the busy season is over. XD There are so many orders that I just can't afford getting distracted no matter how entertaining it is. See you all again in a couple o' months. :D

Struggling, it would seem to me, pretty easy to assume that there is a competitive advantage to claiming to be an American company in this industry. The majority of the clients are American.

If there were no economic incentives to appearing American, then the companies that EW works for would not lie. The fact that they do speaks volumes.

And companies that appear to be willing to lie about their writers are also the ones that gather the most complaints from customers. This and other sites are ample testimony of that. So, there appears to be a pretty strong link between lying about writer quals and cheating students with poorly written/never written projects.

And, btw, since you brought up motives, I don't have a problem with competitors in the industry. I work for 3-4 companies at once; more competition lets me pick and choose between a wider variety of jobs and deadlines. However, if I do have a motive, I would like to see these frauds go away, because they make the industry look bad by lying to and cheating consumers.

Lavinia

Obviously if a site purports to be from a particular location it is likely to attract students from that location, however, this is not necessarily because the student wants to support the American industry as WB suggests but more likely to be because the student would expect that writer to have knowledge of the American style of writing, referencing etc.

If I were looking for a writer (which I am not) I would specifically want a writer who is resident in the UK not to support the UK market but because my area of study is law and it would be imperative for my writer to be well versed in UK law.

I don't particularly care about the exact reasons for a student's preference for a writer from their nation. It seems to me clear that such preferences are the norm and that some companies exploit the desires of their consumers by blatantly lying about their employees.

That said, I don't think that WB is off base about the many reasons why an American consumer could prefer an American writing company. As consumers, the husband and I tend to buy products that we know are produced in the United States and we don't support companies that outsource whenever possible. I think a lot of Americans think that way.

Besides, I think that WB's point wasn't that all Americans think that way but that these are just some of the choices that are deprived to consumers when they are lied to by a company. That's certainly true.

Lavinia

Above is the quote from WB which implies that thousands of consumers wish to keep their money on American soil, if that were the case wouldn't they ensure that they verify the details supplied by the company. WB has many,many times explained how to use whois and how this will reveal the true location of a site etc it is not rocket science for those SUPPOSEDLY so dedicated to only wishing to use American resources to utilise this in order to avoid outsourcing if they really are so against this.

In the UK there are only a minority of the population that would insist on buying British. All countries now are multicultural and Britain seems to be more averse to the admission of refugees into the country then most countries, thereby creating a situation where there is inadequate employment for British citizens as employers will take on a foreign employee in preference because they can pay them less money for the same work.

It is not only the essay writing industry that exploits the fact that foreign workers can be paid less. The danger in the academic sense is that for those who speak english as a second language the grammatical structure of their work can be inferior to that of a writer for whom english is a first language. By the same token I have seen statements written by native english police officers that would make you cringe. We actually have a hall of fame at the station for poorly written statements or memos from CPS and lawyers. The letters from lawyers often prove to be the most entertaining as it is impossible to believe that these are supposedly educated people when the mistakes are so glaringly obvious.

I think everyone on the forum has got the message of WB that it is wrong for a company to pretend to be located in one place when in actual fact they are located elsewhere and that it is also wrong for companies to state they only employ EFL writers when they clearly don't, however, I do not accept that the main reason students are annoyed at being deceived in this way is because they want to keep their money on native soil. The students who complain on here do not complain about having been conned into believing that this was a native company they complain about late delivery of work, standard of work, and the price charged.

If all these companies that claim to be American or based in UK produced excellent quality of work on every single occasion very few people would care whether the money they were paying was staying on native soil or was being outsourced. In the age of competitive pricing people do not stay loyal to their native country if doing so will cost them considerably more.

A prime example of this is in the automotive industry. It is virtually impossible to buy a car that is 100% British nowadays as so many of the car companies have been sold off to overseas companies. In fact one of the only true British cars remaining now is the Rolls Royce. If I were to insist on remaining loyal to the British car industry I would have to buy a Rolls and as I do not have that kind of money it looks like I would be walking.

Even with food it is often cheaper to buy imported goods rather than home produced items. The cost of living is such nowadays that many cannot afford the luxury of only buying goods produced in their own country.

Students are on limited budgets and are looking to pay as little as possible for assistance with their work which is why they are likely to get ripped off. The fact of life is that if you compromise on price you invariably compromise on quality. Sites mentioned on here will continue to thrive despite all of WB's protestations because the students either cannot afford to pay the higher prices of the better companies or are unwilling to pay the higher prices.

Do you actually think that the posters here represent even a fraction of 1% of all American essay buyers?

Americans don't know that they are dealing with a foreign SCAM until they receive the ESL garbage that was supposed to have been written by an AMERICAN with a Ph.D. degree from an AMERICAN university! Why is that so difficult to understand? Why are you making excuses for proven criminals?

How do you work out I am making excuses?? I am merely stating a fact that people generally go for cheap rather than quality and if cheap means outsourcing then MOST people will not care about outsourcing in order to save money. I did point out IF YOU CARE TO READ, that you get what you pay for. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys - simple!!

American customers DO check WHois records! The problem is that the CRIMINALS for whom you make excuses use FAKE WHOIS INFORMATION! I should be thanking you for proving my point about 5 of the most prominent, foreign sites:

VIRGINIA (actually based in Ukraine)
whois.domaintools.com/bestessays.com[DND*]

NEW YORK (actually based in Ukraine)
whois.domaintools.com/masterpapers.com

PRIVATE (actually based in Ukraine)
whois.domaintools.com/custom-writing.org

PRIVATE (actually based in Pakistan)
whois.domaintools.com/termpaperrelief.com

WASHINGTON (actually based in Pakistan)
whois.domaintools.com/ivydissertations.com

I could go on indefinitely with example sites, but I think you get the picture.


Apples and oranges, my friend. Those police officers aren't masquerading as "professional writers in the English language."


See my previous answer.


Did I ever claim such? NO. I merely presented it as one of many possible reasons (which Lavinia already clarified for you) why an American client will be sickened after discovering the fraud.


Alright, you are clearly making statements that you simply cannot back-up with evidence. I don't have to waste my time finding all the links in this forum and elsewhere to prove you wrong, as I'm sure that Lavinia and many other members have read the same posts from students who are complaining about an ESL writer rip-off perpetrated by a site that promises American writers with doctoral degrees.


Again, your logic is simply flawed. Why do you keep ignoring the FACT that customers are not given a CHOICE? The argument ends there. Period.


WRONG. I know that Toyota is Japanese, BMW is German, and Ford is American.American consumers have a clear CHOICE when choosing which vehicle to purchase! I drive a Ford Expedition. You can bet your *** that if Ford vehicles all were to have a "Made in America" sticker on the windshield, and it later gets leaked that Fords are actually made in China, Ford would have PR night terrors (yes, those would be worse than a "PR nightmare").

These maybe german cars but where are they made

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6505987.stm

oh yes india!


and they are built where?

folkpark.com/childrens_corner/Emigrant_Stories/Henry_Ford/

Northern Ireland since the UK site at Dagenham closed


and manufactured in

carpages.co.uk/toyota/toyota_50_million_pound_investment_in_uk_op eration_27_05_04.asp

UK!!

the point I was making is that the cars may have been originally built and made in one country but due to demand and labour costs finding a car that was originally built in one country STILL being built in that country only is not going to happen.


A lot of lawyers are accomplished writers. Go to any solicitors website and you will see a list of articles they have written, so they are supposed to be well versed in the use of language, but some are clearly less articulate.

In law schools in the UK barristers and lawyers gives classes to students. At BPP in London the director of the company is a qualified barrister as well as an accomplished writer who has written several books, bit his lecture handouts that a friend of mine was given (written by the man himself) was so full of grammatical mistakes it looked like it had been written by someone with dyslexia.


They are complaining about the writer NOT the location. They wanted an AMERICAN writer (your words) and got an ESL one instead. If the essay was top class (as some posters on here have said about several sites) then no one would give a damn where the company was based.

I think a survey if the posters on here is called for to prove my point.

And here is a post designed to upset WB lol

news.trend.az/index.shtml?show=news&newsid=1162074&lang=EN

The Chevrolet was built manually by a design team of Ukraine's ZAZ automotive factory in Zaporizhia ,

and this one too lol

english.pravda.ru/business/companies/04-12-2007/102196-ford_cars_ china-0

The car analogy is a pretty bad example. Yes, no manufacturer will lie about where a vehicle was made but except for where the company is based, there is a very good chance a car is assembled elsewhere. BMW may be German, but they have a huge assembly plant in Spartanburg, SC. Mercedes Benz? M-Class plant is in Alabama. Toyota? Texas, Mississippi. GM? They've got a plant in Mexico.

You say you want to support the US economy? You can buy from an American owned company. You will also be supporting the economy buying the BMW that was produced with American labor.

Please stay focused on the POINT! Car dealers do not blatantly LIE about their geographical location or nature of their labor force. Within 2 minutes, I can find EXACTLY how and where ANY car manufacturer does business.


Wow, you don't even need me to refute your "evidence." You continue to defeat your own arguments. Do you not realize that the information you quote has been MADE PUBLIC BY THE HONEST MANUFACTURERS? Unlike the crooked essay frauds that you defend, the auto manufacturers do not INTENTIONALLY HIDE any foreign side deals that they may make in order to TRICK CONSUMERS. If an American customer does not like the fact that Chevy allowed ONE Ukrainian team to develop a special vehicle for a 10-foot-tall mutant, that American customer has FULL KNOWLEDGE of Chevy's connection to Ukraine and can make a judgement call as to whether or not that justifies not doing business with Chevy.

Geez, man! It's not rocket science!

Again, you are missing an all important and large third group. These are the students who choose a company like MasterPapers because they think they are getting American writers at a bargain price. Only later do they find out, when their paper is trash and being ignored by customer service, that they were cheated by a company lying about hiring Americans.


I think this whole car analogy is really bad. First, car companies don't lie about where they are based and where the cars are made. Second, car companies are held to the same standards and are closely regulated - ie, Toyota can't build a dud that is sold in the US that fails to meet emissions. Third, conscientious shoppers can still buy cars that are manufactured in the US. I don't drive a Ford (sorry WB) but both of our family cars were built in the US. My first car was a Ford and I certainly did get it back then in part b/c it was an American car.

And also, outsourcing in this industry doesn't really work like it does elsewhere. An orange is still an orange whether it is grown in Florida or the Dominican Republic. A Ford car and a Toyota car... still a car.

A paper that is produced by a student from the US and a student from DR is going to be very different b/c the students were produced in different school systems. I don't even write for British students b/c frankly I don't know and have no interest in learning UK educational standards or citation styles. Some of these ESL writers think that just speaking English is sufficient to produce a quality essay and I disagree.


You're ignoring the fact that the majority of complaints are directed toward the companies that lie about hiring American writers only. The two are linked. If these students weren't being initially conned, they wouldn't be posting.

How can you be ABSOLUTELY certain that none of the people who work for these companies are not AMERICAN. These sites have been slated so much on here (and that is none of my concern either way) that NO American writer would ever dare admit they have written for this company for fear of been branded a criminal by WB.


Likewise if I were a writer (which I'm not) I would never write for anything other than UK students especially since my speciality is law and I would not have a clue about overseas legislation as well as writing styles etc.


Maybe that was not such a good choice but the point I was trying to make is that many people buy goods NOT manufactured in their own country because they are cheaper. Not that many people are bothered about supporting their countries own economy. In the same way students are not necessarily concerned with where the paper is written so long as its well written AND inexpensive.

I don't have to be certain of that. These companies claim to ONLY hire American and British writers, which we all know to be false.


American writers have stated that they accept working for 4-6$ per page; they got no wrath from WB that I remember. You just have to go back a few months to find the posts.

I think the low number of American writers who admit to working for 4-6$ per page isn't b/c they're afraid of Wb, it's b/c they're rare. B/c 4-6$ per page is a pittance in the U.S. With minimum wage laws poised to move some states above 10$ an hour, I don't see a person with a degree or two writing for that, full or part time.


Well sure, some care about the nation of origin, some don't. But the real point is that these companies deprive consumers of important information that could and likely does impact their decisions.

At least American writers have shame. Regardless, as Lavinia has correctly stated, American writers don't post about working for the Ukrainian/Pakistani rip-off sites because American writers are few and far between in the ranks of foreign sites' writer pools. It's as simple as that.

Right on, struggling.


ooooh, the sheer superiority of the American people. I'm lovin' it!!!

Wow, you are a marketing genius for EW. Really. I'm sure the consumers who browse this board will be clamoring to hire you.

did I, in any post, ever marketed for EW?? remind me, pleaaaseee.. these memory gaps, they irritate me. where is WB? why isnt WB here when Lavinia is here?? hmm.. must be the heat. the heat is getting into me.