I still don't understand the hostility against foreign companies...

Why some of you people are so aggressive against them? There are many companies that use foreign-based customer service (like IBM, Intel, Google, Sprint, Verizon, Dell, Nike to mention a few) and nobody is so aggressive against those companies. When I sometimes talk to a customer service I don't understand their English language but at the same time I don't go and post s-i* about them or dont' call them liars or scams!

The fact a customer service person or even the whole company isn't based in the US or other Western country doesn't make the company a fraud. So what they have a PO box as a business address - is there actually anyone here who actually ever visited an office of a essay writing website? Why would you even need a physical address, writing and research companies work online only. Nobody goes to shop for essays like they do when shopping in Walmart.

Get over it, there are many websites competing against each other, but it doesn't mean they should throw s*it at one another. What other industry does that?

What "crime" (other than not posting their physical address but a PO box or sporadic hiring ESL writers like most companies do) have they done? That the owner is Russian or Pakistani? Is it a crime?

Besides, if a person was really scammed, there are laws and regulations that allow to easily get his or her money back. There is customer protection law in place so if you order a paper and don't receive it you can call your bank to get the money back. It's as simple as that.

So please stop those little wars and get back to business or get out of business if you cannot stand your competition.

I was going to be hired as a writer but working in this industry seems like being in mafia. Who needs that?

White Sox, get your facts straight or put a sock in it! Don't come here and accuse us of being xenophobes. If lying to customers is alright in your book, well ...

WhiteSox, please learn how to read. Your fraud-defending argument has already been crushed 100 times in other threads.

Isn't it odd how only other, foreign fraudsters (mostly ESL speakers) defend the crooks?

Yes, StinkySox is very ESL. Probably affiliated with Alexei, Yuri or Eugene

Come on, each and every company stretches the truth because they write an ad copy. There is absolutely NO ONE LEGIT company that has 100% true text on their website. And that applies to each and every website out there.

The same scenario is with TV ads and still nobody believes 100% such ads. An ad in itself always stretches the truth and only a fool would try to point out inaccuracies or in an commercial ad because there will always be inaccuracies in an ad.

I do. I have nothing against farming out customer service to save costs as long as they still provide SERVICE, but when they cannot be understood, cannot help you with anything because they work at a giant call center and not actually at the company you're calling, and are rude (and this is not true of all foreign call center workers, but many), I get pissed--and as a paying customer, I have a right to.


No, it doesn't. But claiming that you are located in one country when you actually only have a PO Box there DOES make you a fraud, by definition (look it up).


Computers and politicians come instantly to mind.


Your naive statement provides the answer to your disingenuous question. I would like to see you get your money back from a Pakistani or Ukrainian company that provided you with substandard work--credit card companies don;t just reverse charges because you tell them to, and its often "buyer beware"--if these companies delivery anything at all, the credit card company often won't reverse charges, and there's no way for you to pursue these companies legally without flying to the Ukraine or Pakistan and filing suit--and even then, your odds aren't good. As a writer, your options are even worse--there's virtually no way to force these companies to pay what they owe.

Your English skills do not provide a great deal of competition for customers who want quality work.


Scary. So, why are you here?

No, I don't defend "the crooks," I just noticed how some of you use stereotypes to defend your arguments.

Like someone called me "very ESL" then it means I'm a fraud or Ukrainian scam. Get over it, that's not how it is.

This isn't a stereotype; it's a fact that is evident in your writing. It wouldn't matter in most cases, but when the subject is professional proficiency in English, I think it's pretty on-point.

Right, but do you call them "frauds" or "criminals"? Have they stolen your identity or credit card details? Probably not.


What do you mean by "you"? One company usually has one or two owners and hire dozen of freelance writers and managers from different countries.

This quote:


Not me! English horrid ... it's StinkySox:

Sorry, WRT...the board's been doing that sometimes; not sure how. I certainly didn't think you said this, nor did I mean to imply it.


You can try splitting hairs if you want, but it's pretty transparent. If Toyota claimed that it's cars were made in the US and Japan when they were actually being hammered together by people in Nairobi who were hired by offices in the US and Japan, that's dishonest.

In this industry, Ukrainian owners (these are the people I used to work for) pretend they are American/British, and say that their writers are from the US/UK, when in fact they hire people from India, Africa, and anywhere else that people are willing to complete orders for 2-3$ a page. This wouldn't be problem if their English was good enough, but it isn't.

These owners LIE in order to attract customers, and deliver a product that they KNOW does not live up to their advertised quality and qualifications. THSI IS FRAUD, any way you want to slice it.


Gee, you seem pretty well informed for someone who was almost hired but decided not to be a part of this industry.

It's fairly obvious you work for a foreign scam site; I know your English is bound to be bad, but you don't have to show off your stupidity with this kind of slip, too.

I know for a fact some Toyota trucks are made in Mexico.


IF it was as bad as you claim, do you think these companies would still be in existence after having done business with American or British clients for the last several years? You sound as if all their orders were unacceptable. If that was really the case these companies would have enough complaints to be shut down. But that's not the case.

You said you were hired by one of these companies and then say they only hire Indians, Africans, or other ESL writers. Unless you are from one of these countries you prove that they are in fact telling the truth and also hire American writers.


So you worked for a "foreign scam site" - you must be a scammer and fraudster too. This is where your stereotypic thinking may take you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal


Yeah, and would you like to place a bet on exactly how long it will take me to post proof of exactly where and how Toyota openly admits such?


They are constantly making new sites in order to dodge the dismal reputation that individual sites rightfully earn.

The sites (like essaywriters.net and Academia-Research.com) that the fraudsters use to attract writers do not openly advertise that the owners are crooks and liars from Ukraine who actually pay writers in peanuts.

Ok, so which essay research website in your opinion is a classic example of a scam website? I'd like to visit it and then ask you some questions.

By the way, has anyone else noticed how much more sane, organized, and focused the forum has become (minus the antics of a few idiots) ever since a certain "EW" fan blessed us with his departure?


You've been here for 5 minutes. You're the one making false accusations. I have nothing to prove to you, as I've already posted concrete, verifiable proof in numerous threads.

Cool. Way to miss the point.


There are always new customers, and no amount of complaints can shut down a company in some countries--only a lack of revenue will do that.


I never said "only." Even if they hired ten US/UK writers, that wouldn't make the claim that all of their writers were native speakers true. I know ten seems like a big number, but there are even bigger ones you have to go thorugh before you get to "all"--like eleven, twelve, and more.


Ummm...I quit because they were a scam site. That was where my stereotypic thinking got me.

Seriously, I'd like to see a 'classic scam website' example. Is MasterPapers.com a good example of such site? Or BestEssays.com?

That's a good one to start with.

"some of you people..." and you know exactly who you are... too great. someone put WhiteSox in charge!

OK, I see their contact numbers (US/UK landline phones and fax):

Our Contacts

Us Sales Toll-Free:
1-800-346-9168

US Support Toll-Free:
1-866-337-9866

US Support:
1-302-289-3168

UK: 44-20-022-7240
Fax: 1-302-450-4197

Are these numbers fake, do they exist or not? I'm almost sure they are operational. Live chat support is also working.

A scam company wouldn't post their landline phones (and if they do, they would not be working).

What have I missed? I don't think it's a fraudulent website run by criminals who want to scam innocent students.

Those phone numbers are fake. They are virtual numbers acquired from an online forwarding service. Victims call the advertised number, which automatically (and secretly) forwards to the real landline in Ukraine or elsewhere. The customer never has access to the real number.

Heck, the owners of MasterPapers.com own/owned a site (FastCompanyFormation.com) that specializes in helping foreigners set-up shell companies in the US for the specific purpose of fooling American customers. Not surprisingly, Alexei disabled FastCompanyFormation.com after I first exposed it in this forum.

You might as well stop while you're behind, because there is absolutely nothing that you can post to win this argument.

WB already explained the details. I wouldn't call the numbers "fake," but they are misleading. Anyone can purchase an 800 number and have calls forwarded anywhere else in the world. The fact that they have both a US and a UK phone number is pretty clear evidence of this, unless you think the company actually has offices in both countries.

By the way, UK companies have to put a physical address on their homepage--where is this at bestessays?

I thought a fraud is someone who takes your money, runs away, and hides. Even if they use call forwarding there must be still a real person behind it who paid for the services, for the mailbox etc.

A consensus is that we know who are the company owners and even where they live, don't we? IF they were criminals or FBI was looking for them it would be easy to find them. But that's not the case, isn't it? THey are not hiding in mountains because they don't have too. Is there any court order against them?

Why in the first place would you call them frauds or criminals if you don't have any legal order? Is it even legal to call someone a criminal if they are legally innocent?

I'm not saying that these scam companies don;t exist at all, or that they just take your money and run away with it. They take your money, give a tiny portion of it to a writer in the developing world, and tell you to go fu*- yourself when you demand a better paper or a refund.

When you are a writer, they either refuse to pay you outright, or more often make up a huge list of excuses as to why they can't pay you.

Of course, this argument is largely pointless since you obviously have an agenda and aren't here to listen to reason, not that you would recognize it if it sat on your lap and wiggled.

By "fake," I mean that the fraudsters present the numbers under false pretenses as a means to enable fraudulent transactions. Of course, the numbers are "real," but they don't connect to the people or location that customers are falsely led to believe. If customers knew the truth in advance, they would never pick up the phone.

Well, you thought wrong. No surprise there. Get a dictionary.


Who is we, where is this consensus, and who is they?

I don't have a court order certifying you as a moron, but I have enough evidence to make up my mind on that fact, The same is true for companies that promote obvious lies. If I stopped you on the street and took your money by force, are you saying it would be wrong to call me a thief until after you had taken me to court?


I know what you meant of course. You know me; I'm a stickler for details.

It's not illegal to pay writer what they want (uless the writer is their slave, but that's not the case).

I'm sure you've just made up this thing about 'go fu*- yourself.'


But the system allows anyone in the world to use this forwarding feature as they wish, doesn't it. If it was ILLEGAL such system would not work this way. But it is legal and many companies do it.


Does it mean they use stolen credit cards? How can a transaction be "fraudulent" if a person (the card holder) willingly pays for it?


Hasn't Yury or Alexy (?) posted here? They live in the UK, don't they? They don't hide in the mountains. IF they are criminals, they are easy to find, aren't they? Maybe you need to get a dictionary to read the definition of a criminal?


So you THINK they are doing something illegal, but the courts and business organizations don't think so (if they did, they would shut them down).

Whitesox, you can't be as stupid as you're pretending, I know you're enjoying the feeling that you're winning an argument, but you're the only one that thinks so. I'll explain this one more time, then I have a life to get back to:

Let's pretend I'm a real person, with a real phone number. I put up an ad in another country with that real phone number and tell people to call me if they want their car washed. They pay me with a credit card over the phone. That night, it rains. I tell them that I'm done washing their car.

They ask for their money back. I say, "I washed your car." They say, "That isn't what I wanted when I paid for it." I say, "Oh."

They call their credit card company, but because I claim to have provided the service they paid for, the credit card company won't reverse the charges. The only way for them to get their money back is to sue me in my own country, where there is actually some jurisdiction over my finances.

Real people, real phone numbers, real credit cards, real purchases that people intended to make, real fraud. If you honestly don't understand this, you're real stupid.


First, some companies have been shut down. Second, courts don't go out looking for frauds--people have to file complaints and/or lawsuits for this to happen. The difficulty of doing this internationally has already been explained. Third, what business organizations are you talking about? Do you think there's some sort of oversight on the essay writing industry?

It is illegal, however, to falsely advertise a grossly inaccurate "average rate of pay" and countless other lies in order to attract writers.

It is illegal for Yuri to advertise that BestEssays.com and EssayWriters.net have been online "since 1997" when his oldest site was registered in late 2003. I could go on and on, but I've already done so in previous threads.


Owning a handgun isn't illegal until you shoot somebody with it (absent of self-defense).


I suggest that you familiarize yourself with basic, American law. Any transaction or contract that is based in fraud and/or misrepresentation will be rendered void.

This is an AD copy. Car dealers legally advertise they have a new BMW for $15K (and in fact they may have but only one, but not all cars at that price).


Is this a criminal offence? They could say their writer first used an email account (ie. first got online) in 1997 and that claim won't be illegal.


Now they killed anyone?


If that was the case, every product or service would qualify for a refund. Because "Misrepresentation" is in the eye of beholder. If car dealer writes in his ad that his BMW is very comfortable and I purchase it and after a few months I claim the car's seat aren't that comfortable, will I get my money back? You pick on issues which are as absurd as my examples.

You are officially an idiot. Leave.

Besides, the BestEssays owner lives in the UK. So any talk about him or his company being "foreign" should be void. Probably the same applies to the other companies that are being slandered here.

Post proof or get lost.

StinkySox, have you any idea of how absolutely ridiculous your argument is? You are promoting false and misleading information and your assertations are, without exception, invalid.


Yes, here in the UK, most all do. BT, for example, has outsourced its call centre. While it has clearly informed the entire country that its call centre is (mostly) in India, it is bashed daily over that. Do you know why? Because when I, or anyone else, pick up our phones and want to talk to a cusomer service rep whose accent is comprehensible and who speaks English, we expect to find that. We don't and, hence, BT has lost a lot of customers. Most everybody is aggressive about outsourcing our services to countries where English is an alien tongue.


What crime?
1) As per the law of the land, companies have to clearly post their registered address, company registration number and all contact info on their websites.

2) As per Sales of Goods and Services Act, the goods and services which a customer receives have to be in complete compliance with the quality and description advertised. A low-quality, uneducated ESL writer is incapable of producing work which is, in any way, comparable to that which a British or American professional academic writer can produce whilst asleep.

3) As per both Consumer Protection and Sales of Goods and Services Acts, companies cannot falsely advertise themselves - it is illegal to advertise themselves as Brits and Americans when they are not; it is a complete violation of the law for them to claim that all their writers hold Graduate and Post-Graduate degrees, when they do not; it is a blatant defiance of the law to state that all their writers are NATIVE ENGLISH LANGUAGE speakers when they are not.


You are, quite obviously, clueless. It is not as simple as that. You have to file a dispute, etc etc. Even if you do, the company may claim that the service paid for was provided. In this case, a refund will not be issued.


No, they do not live in the UK, not at all. They live in Ukraine, as you well know. More accurately, they hide in Ukraine.


No, we do not think so; we have repeatedly established that they are engaged in illegalities. Hence, we know so. Maybe where you come from, homicide is the only recognised crime. Not here - failing to provide customers with all information relevant to the purchase decision is illegal; misleading customers is illegal; providing them with plagiarised papers is a violation of copyright laws; etc etc

By the way, a business organisation does not have the authority to shut another business down.


It is illegal to promise writers Y amount for a research but, when payday arrives, to deduct imaginary XYZ from the agreed upon amount. It is illegal to advertise a misleading pay rate.


This feature was never intended to be used for the purposes of misleading customers into believing that you are located in the UK, when you are not. In fact, using this service for the purpose of misleading is, more often than not, a violation of the provider's Terms and Conditions of Use.


A transaction is inarguably fraudulent if the payer/consumer was misled into making the purchase. The payee/service provider is legally obligated to provide the customer wth all information relevant to the purchase decision. The Pakistani, Ukrainian, etc companies do not = fraudulent transaction.

Now, StinkySox, go away.

So will you have the guts to call them "criminals and fraudsters" just because they outsourced their customer service and use foreigners to do the job? How is it different from ESL writers writing an essay in English? They also try to talk in English to you (even though English is not their first language), don't they?


If the company is doing business or is located in the US it doesn't have to post their address.


It was proven that American writers are being hired as well. Why do you pick on ESL writers again?


Not all writers are, but some are. You probably added the word "all" yourself.


So the company is legitimate enough to do daily business with national banks, but not legitimate enough to provide the service to anonymous students? IF the company was a fraud, do you think banks and other entities the company is doing business with wouldn't notice (they had several years to notice that).


Is there any court order against them? Are there any sanctions imposed on Ukraine for hiding these "criminals" (who apparently freely travel to the UK and spend there most of their times, ie. live there?).


If I was to listen to your advice, I would land in a jail within a week. You claim that if a company does not provide me with "all information relevant to the purchase decision" then I have the right:

1. To sue that company (and win in all cases).
2. To demand a refund regardless the circumstances.

What you write is utter nonsense. Here is why - let's say I went to a barber to cut my hair. I liked the cut and the service. But after a few days I was short on cash. I knew my friend (who is gay) also used their service. So I went to the manager and told him

"Dear manager, I need a refund because you haven't informed me that you cut hair of gay people, too. I just didn't know and since I don't like gay people it was your legal duty to inform me of that. You haven't provided me with all information relevant to my purchase decision. Thank you for your cooperation, waiting for the refund."


If you carefully read the TOS you would probably notice a point about possible deductions.


The fact that you may believe in something is not equal to what others may believe in. If the feature was misleading to the point that it was illegal - it would be illegal, period.

"as well" isn't the same as "only," and for the customers who don't get American writers, the fact that the company employs some doesn't matter a whole lot.


Wrong again. Go back and read the site that you supposedly checked out.


This argument makes no sense. Banks do business with people/entities that have money, period. The companies didn't steal the money, they just obtained it for a product they couldn't deliver.


You've been asked for proof of this. Show it.


You're a moron. There's an obvious difference between this case and that of essay scams. A more apt scenario would be if you paid a barber for a haircut, and when you sat down in the chair a retarded monkey with a set of clippers was set on your head.


Not true in many cases. I know this from personal experience.


So, just to be clear, you think that misleading customers is fine as long as it's not expressly illegal?

I couldn't find an example that they claim "We ONLY hire such and such writers." Could you show me on which page they say that?


I checked it and couldn't find it.


If there were as many complaints as you suggested, the banks would not be doing business with the company. It's in the bank's rules.

So IF the company has been scamming people for the last several years then it would have easily more than allowed % of complaints = not doing business with banks any more. In other words, if the company scams their clients it would eventually be able to accept cash only. That is apparently not the case.


Let him show you if you ask him. I don't live with him but this is what I know from my private sources.


As far as I know the client doesn't care if the writer composes his paper while sitting in a bathroom or outside on his yard. The fact is the FINAL product, not the process of doing it.


No, I think you can argue just about anything. We can argue if selling knives should be legal or not (legal - when you use it to cut meat, illegal - when someone uses it to commit a crime). You showed my your personal interpretation, I showed you another interpretation is as valid and true as yours.

You're missing the point again. I'm too tired to point it out for the third time.


"MA and PhD educated writers from well known US and UK Universities" It's on their homepage. Even if they don't say explicitly that all of their writers hold such degrees, it is obviously implied--or why don't they say "some"?


Your understanding of business is something special.


That was my point. Do you think you'd get the same haircut from a trained human barber and a retarded monkey?


Just because an opinion can be asserted doesn't make it valid. And courts generally decide validity in such situations.

then


There is no doubt in my mind that WhiteSox is either an agent of EssayWriters.net/Academia-Research.com or one of the owners.

I agree that essaywriters is a scam. I used to work for them. A lot of great writers used to as well. Essaywriters.net pays well at first but later fines writers unfairly to get more money from orders. They are just too greedy so I left and looked for better companies to work for. I feel sorry for them because they could have made it big but they just cannot stop cheating the people who are responsible for their income.