Dylan, Amy1978,
Can you believe that this person/self-styled writer begins a sentence with "And"?

Ususally, I require a payment for proofing. Howvever, that is one disgusting mistake.
Good for you Amy1978, for pointing out these mistakes.
Not only do such people make mistakes, but they believe that they are GOOD writers!
I wonder who hires them.
Newbie


*)I just finished reading interviews with Ishiguro and some excerpts from his novels.
*)Amy Tan appeals to me too.They are not pulling the race card.
*)Salman Rushdie?
*)I happened to review Vikram Seth's books for a writing class. they have never used the race card. V.S.Naipal , the noble Laureate is known for his scathing criticisms of improper English. The sad part is that writers like "Devangini" assume that they are good writers and bring disgrace to writers from their country.

What one should keep in mind is that not everyone from these countries is ignorant or arrogant or both. This is from some one who works with a colleague who is always requested to proof manuscripts by tenured professors and very established writers. She hails from a similar country. She refuses to define anything unless she has grasped the exact lexical meaning and some of the etymology.

Why are we stating that an entire country or countries are made up of people who make such mistakes?

Thank you for understanding, Dylan. Yes, I was quoting Amy1978.
I too, have heard about this school where the creme de' la creme end up. They are hired by the best companies, school and so on.

Unfortunately, even they are not so great when it comes to syntax, grammar and communication skills. Their pronunciation is shot to hell. They feel that since they are so brilliant, they do not have to speak better English!

I had a Chinese room-mate who could not pronounce the word vaccuum . What she said resembled "vako" Her own family members were better!

Normally, I would think that all Chinese are inept at mastering foreign languages. Enter Chen. Unless you saw him, you would not know that he is of Oriental "extraction". He made me rethink my position on their general learning abilities. Thank you for all your posts Dylan. I very nearly turned in an essay on DNA replication for Essaywriters.net. They seem to be based in Virginia, USA.

This "writer" (devangini) is just one of the below average performers that you will come across in third world coutries. If he has to resort to writing for essaywriters.net, he probably is not good enough for other fields that are much sought after in the Indian subcontinent.

As for grammar, yes, I do have to look up some principles. I have, in the past, abused prepositions. That was until my mom chanced on a report I was turning in. I am still smarting from the remarks she made. :D

Hmm , lets see: I encountered 300 students while finishing my PhD, I taught Intl students for 5 years. Amongst them 5-6 stood apart. I tried to go through the basics of "R.P" or recieved pronunciation, helped them listen to their speech w.r.t their american counterparts. My students refused to change much. Several years of

"40 hrs/wk" later , I gave up. I am not referring to the kids born here because they see themselves as Chinese Americans. The street term: ABCs or Amereican born chinese.

Who is the ignorant fool now?In addition, how come you werent offended by the sweeping generalizations made by Amy1978? Anyone who reads what i posted all the way to the end will understand that now, I see different.

If i am a racist, why would i like Ishiguro and Amy Tan's works in the first place? Would my disdain not "leak" into my choice of authors?

Oh yes, do read up on the reverse bias in Berlkley campus, and in Stanford for Asian applicants. Are they ignorant fools too?
Please tell them how to feel. In addition , do try to teach those F1 students the nuances of R.P and shine at it. Most TAs gave up quickly.

There are many facets, at least more than what you took away.
PS: My publication about the effect of bone structure changes on speech has been well cited. But then again most rednecks do get citations these days

"This has nothing to do with the fact that you are Indian, so you and other ESL writers can try to pull the "race card" all you like. "

No, Amy1978 never said ALL Indians and Pakistanis.
Does the above remark prove that? Does it completely absolve her ? ESL writers dont pull the race card.

1.3 million chinese: versus millions of ESL people. How many non-english speaking people are there in this world? Whose generalization was worse?
Amy1978 made a bigger generalization. You did not use an argument , but called me a racist and an ignorant fool.
Calling names must come easy to you.

I speak seven languages. I learnt them on my own. My most recent foray: Irish. The hard way, the hard kind. I learnt German from a nun. On the phone. Now , I am picking up Russian from a child.

I was told that no one can have a good thesis after 24. Mine shattered that myth.

I changed my "Taushr" ( Mandarin for teacher (?)) after the second semester because i needed to study the state of the art science being "done " in another lab. Yes, Madarin is only one of the languages I speak. As does Vikram Seth, an author orf Indian origin. so did Richard Feynman (?). Why did I not pick up Cantonese? My room mate said that I need to pick it up later, after grasping all the finer aspects of Madarin.

Why would you think/assume/infer/conclude that I taught a handful of them?
10 from each dept .
20 depts.
3 semesters.
5 years. Handfull? When you handle some of the brightest, you expect them to have better mental abilities. When their GRE scores are fabulous they enter the Comp Sci dept. Electrical engg dept

Math, Stat, Biomed engg,.. I could go on. Are my expectations misplaced? Should they not be expected to represent the best of their country? If they cant pick up, who can?

Good ESL writers never use it (ESL status) an excuse to fail Thiey accept their place and acknowledge the majesty of the English Language.
Up until now, no one on has been abusive.

The post about ESL writers is very prejudicial. If a Hungarian were brought up here, English would still be his /her second language. He or she might speak/write great English. Your statemnt assumes that ESL will be sub-standard.

In spite of incindiary remarks I can remain non-abusive. I wish the rest would be too!
May be its not enough that one's native tongue is English. I keep overlooking the fact that grammar and manners dont always go together!

You may THINK you are a quality writer by American standards, but you're not, and that's the problem with Indian/Pakistani writers, in general.

The problem is that I did pay very good attention to what you said. A bit too much?

I also know of a mathematician whose English was terrible. He died at 33. He worked with a high school math text book and extended upon it . Hardy was mesmerized by his genius. He was Ramanujam. From India. Being inept at foriegn languages does not diminish anyone's talent or worth.

If I should not be making a generalization about people whose population is 1.3 million , then one needs to ask the following: How many Indian/Pakistani writers has one encountered?

Please keep in mind that they come from very densely populated counties as well. Please dont over look Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

I happen to know Indian writers who are very good, and are meticulous in their research.

I cannot speak for or about Pakistanis, I have very few colleagues from that country.

Well, that's how long it takes the low-paid Pakistani and Indian writers who don't care about quality.
My calculus teacher was from a Middle Eastern country. He was a good teacher. He was very well paid.As were some other teachers from the countries you have such disdain for.

I do understand the tone, the cadence, the style and finally the intent behind your statements.
You assume that my native tongue is something other than English.
I think I can prove my hypothesis about your attitude(s) very clearly and conclusively.

"Well, that's how long it takes the low-paid Pakistani and Indian writers who don't care about quality. "

"The fact that you view yourself as a "professional writer" makes ME laugh.

Go work for EssayRelief."

I am trying to understand the nuances of the English Language here.

These have to be examples of subtle remarks " or tongue-in-cheek prose".
Bernard Shaw must have inspired this!
True , how could one overlook such genteel discussions?

Of course we're done. The moment one says that I would not be able to express myself well in English, inspite of my diction , we were done.

How can anyone gauge anything beyond whats posted. People made assumptions about nationality via ESL etc.
(Come to think of it, Posters like Dylan and Major never take it upon themselves to correct others' grammatical mistakes. Nor do they bring up race or nationality.

You started by enumerating grammatical mistakes.
If thats not bitter , what is? When there is such hostility and bitterness, we all turn to sane, informed and genteel posters like Dylan.

The above post that makes comments about nuances is a general one. I havent mentioned an poster's name per se'.

I havent told any one to stop. Democracy. I havent posted informed (!) comments like "WTF". Bravo poster ,such good upbringing is reflected when one uses "WTF".

Now, after a few hundred words, I know that nicer things wait: good company , family, and Thanks giving of course.
Its a waste of time try ting to address issue brought up by posters who say "WTF" in a forum such as this. What a waste of time.