My experience with essaywriters.net (I'm a writer)

If a company charges $25 per page (250 words), how much would they have to pay the writer to be an 'ethical company'?

If I had my own company then I would feel guilty if I didn't pay the writer at least $15. 40% commission is not a small amount to keep. New companies with negative cash flow characteristic of its infancy may keep 50% as commission. So since $ 25 per page is quite common to charge the customer, it should be common for a writer to expect at least $12.5 per page. I suppose that is not a norm even in established companies and writers can't stop singing their praises when they pay above or at $10 on average.

You need to realize a company that charges $25 actually gets paid $24 (after transaction fees). Still, in your previous post you wrote a company that pays $12-$15 is a shady company, why did you change your mind and now think $15 is OK? :)

Maybe companies should pay the 'ethical rate' of $20 per page (charging $25 at the same time) and get about 17% commission (if that was the case who would want to run a company in the first place? : ).

You misunderstand me. When in my earlier post where I talk about a shady company paying $12-$15, I was referencing a hypothetical case of charging the customer $50 first by the company. Here the "ethical" companies would come around paying $20 to the writer which is 40% of the total.

In my prior post I was asked about a situation where the customer was charged $25. Here a shady company would and does pay the writer around half of $12-$15 which would be from $6-$8.

Also, personally I consider 25% commission to be more than appropriate but if a company took around 40% then still I would not protest. But that does not seem to be the actual case and the companies on average take at least 60 %. And yes I did say at least because you are always competing against low bidders.

"Shady companies" usually hire ESL (unqualified) writers from 3rd-world countries and for them (the writers) $6-$8 is actually a very good rate.

And that is why the essay industry reflects another example of outsourcing. But the reason why the "shady" companies are so in terms of its finances is not because they pay the writers $6-$8 which the writers would be ecstatic to gain, but because they will charge the customers "American" charges.

That's why it's crucial that customers should make an educated decision and buy from genuine and US-based companies to help them with their research and writing. Otherwise they risk being charged the "US rate" and be assigned a writer from Albonia.

Exactly! And they go about advertising themselves as UK/US based companies whose writers are all Americans/Brits with graduate and post-graduate degrees.


It is equally important that writers make a similarly educated decision. Any which hire writers without checking their qualifications are hardly to be trusted. A company which cheats its customers (by hiring unqualified ESL writers) would cheat its writers.


Not at all. In the first place, only a handful of companies have a bidding system in place. Secondly, admin is responsible for much more than you've assumed. Besides manning livechat and phone lines, they provide writer and customer support, troubleshoot potential problems, check orders for plagiarism prior to passing them onto Quality Control, ensure that writers respond to customer messages, etc etc ... Good Admin staff are well-paid and well worth it.


An extremely erroneous assumption.


With the shady companies, yes. As far as the legits are concerned, however, rest assured that an active Quality Control team is in place and carefully vets orders before passing them onto customers.


Untrustworthy writers are fired. That's all there is to it.

Well-stated, Major.

keep in mind: this is a shady industry, and you can get a crap writer anywhere... and from any country.

that said, I think that companies like EW do keep a pool of sad sacks who are afraid to quit, willing to be fined, and for whom a low page rate in the US is a good living wage in their respective regions. that's what keeps these goons in business, and shaking down their own employees.

with any company in the term paper mill industry, whether it's from the US, Ukraine, the Punjab, or Mars, both writers and customers are going to be taking a certain calculated risk of getting ripped off.

Yes, I am. While my accounts are still active with several companies, I only write for one now.


I understand what you are driving at here and while you may have a point, a distinction does exist. At the very least, the legits ensure that their customers receive non-plagiarised, quality work and treat their writers with the respect they deserve. The legits do not fine writers or demand endless revisions of them - they know that a good writer is far more valuable than a problematic customer. Furthermore, they certainly do not hire unqualified writers who are willing to work for peanuts. They pay their writers well and actually give them bonuses. Yes, the industry may be questionable but there are many in it who run a clean operation (or do their best) ...

I was making generalizations while leaning more towards exposing the policies of the dubious companies. Even then I do agree that I have raised a question about the percentages paid to the writers from the total price, even in the case of well-established reliable companies. You stated that good companies have to man live-chat, customer orders and so on which of course I agree is energy and time consuming thus requiring a good cut. But if you look in my earlier posts you will read that I have highlighted cases from other industries which also have to perform the same chores while being an intermediary. In fact, their overhead matters can safely be assumed to be of greater concerns and their commission rates are still less than that found in the legitimate essay industry companies. However, this does not disqualify the essay industry but unlike other industries, it is still not competitive enough - I suppose - to thin the pay rates of various parties and gather smaller profits for themselves without finding themselves bankrupt.

The RWC model is hardly industry-wide.


Apples and oranges ...


Again - companies do not take a commission/cut, unless they are EB, iF, etc ... totally different platform and concept.

It appears that you may have an alternative business model in mind; one which would allow a company to pay their writers 50+% of the CPP while managing all of the following from their remaining 50%:

1) taxes
2) hosting, internet services and dedicated (or virtual dedicated) server fees
3) Monthly wages of at least two Admin (if from the US/UK they are not cheap
4) Marketing costs (spamming blogs, forums, etc is not marketing)
5) Quality Control team wages - please note that if you hire real pros, as in individuals capable of evaluating academic work, they do not come cheap

6) IT support wages
7) Web and platform development costs (buying a ready-made template and hosting it for free is hardly acceptable)
8) Management wages - I believe many here know how much it would cost to hire a good, academically qualified Brit or American, on an exclusive basis ...

the list goes on and on ...

If you've come up with a model which allows you to cover all of that from your -50% and still make a profit, then you should implement it. Instead of arguing about the percentage paid to writers and referring to them as `commissions,' show us the way ...

Lets see ... everything you have highlighted from taxes to management wages apply to all business - or almost all - that include a web-based approach. So I don't know how is it comparing apples to oranges by just looking at your stated list. Quality Control may be even of greater concern in other industries as having a wrong person could result in catastrophic situations - much like the problems arising from the lack of a qualified staff at British Petroleum which is incomparable to a plagiarized essay in the case of writing companies.

So here is a depiction. A company charges a flat rate of $32 per page, pays the writer a flat rate of $12 per page and keeps $20 - which is still considered good for the writers. Now in an entire day it only receives 20 pages worth of orders so the company has a cash flow in of $400. Each order is one page to be completed on the same day so there are 20 orders. With only 20 orders, it may need one admin who makes sure the clients are set-up with the right writers. He makes sure - 20 times during the day I might add - that the writer is completing the paper within deadline and on the other hand soothes the client that the process is underway. And of course there could be more which the admin may be required to do but it most likely falls at a lower level than the two chores I stated.

Now all those 20 pages are to be read quite carefully by the quality controller to make sure that the papers follow the guidelines, are free of grammar errors, sound sophisticated up to the required level, are not plagiarized and meaningfully cited. Again there could be more but please don't mind enlightening me. Since there are only 20 pages to read I am going to assume that there is only one quality controller in this hypothetical case.

So now we have 2 people working and lets add two more as the CEO and a management personnel. You have already stated for some reason that the admin, quality control and management is very expensive. However, as I have reflected upon in my previous posts that all their functions can collapse into being intermediaries if the writer performs self-assessment of quality which any good writer will, stays in contact with the client and delivers the paper in time. But regardless, lets assume that we need the hand of the admin and the quality controller to oversee constantly.

So a typical writer is then able to complete 5 pages per day in perfection earning $60. It uses every nerve in his brain to reach a level of creativity that pens the paper. Of course, different subjects require different sorts of intelligence. Now lets give $180 to the CEO which is still less but only because the company is in its infancy and does not have much work. Let $40 -which is 10 % of the total cash flow on a daily basis deal with the overhead of server fees and electricity and other such matters. It could be more or less but do educate me with your opinion on it. Lets give out the other 3 members of the staff an equal portion of the remaining $180. So now everyone pays their taxes including the writer. The company pays a little more as corporate tax which depends on the size of the corporation. But the point is that the writer toiled all day to earn $60 while the 3 staff members I am sure could have worked on 40 more pages with ease before feeling the burn.

So again I would say that what you think as an exclusive cost of being a writing company is not true. More costs are generated in industries elsewhere who still give lion's share to the party performing the real work. The only real reason for the income gap is because this industry being in its infancy does not face real competion from verifiable and legitimate companies. It more or less can exercise monopoly although there may be many around the world. The market size dictates their policies. Second and more importantly, this industry may have a bleak future education lobby is not going to see it in any positive light if in the future the industry comes more to light. It may be completely disrupted and the CEOs know this very well. They perceive this and are acting very smartly as they try to gather most wealth in a limited time available.

That is just an outlook and the current situation does not make any difference to me as long as the income gap is not outrageous wide.

I do not believe that the submission of a plagiarised essay would have global economic and environmental reprecussions and it, most certainly, would not negatively impact the livelihood of entire communities. In our line of work, however, we consider the reprecussions important. The submission of a plagiarised or shoddy piece of work is nothing other than theft. It is further indicative of the company's callous disregard for the future of students who entrusted it with their work. So, whether you accept it or not, some of us do consider Quality Control very very important and go to great lengths to ensure that our clients receive that which they paid for. No, it is not BP or the healthcare industry but it is important.


They give the lion's share to their employees?


That does not make any sense. the industry is not in its infancy and has been around for ages, long before companies went online. That being said, why don't you launch your alternate model? Pay your writers 60-70% and carry all overheads from the remaining 30-40%.

You have assumed too many things here - many of which are simply wrong:
1) Companies have a bidding system in place and assign orderes to the lowest bidder
2) Companies merely function as middlemen
3) Companies do not have solid Quality Control teams in place and quality control is the responsibility of the writer
4) Companies hire unqualified ESL writers, willing to work for $6-8 per page and believe they've hit the jackpot if assigned a $10 per page order

5) Companies are here for the short term as they fear the rise of an education lobby which would drive us all out of business
6) we are all about exploiting writers

What industry management experience do you have? If any, what was the nationality of the company in question (not its name) and how long did you work with them? I am asking because your `vision' is unrealistic and your assumptions are just that - assumptions.

I could be wrong and you may surprise us all with a company which pays its writers more than 60% and manages to stay in business.

As for apples and oranges - comparing companies in this industry to BP is just that.

Mods - this line of discussion is interesting but the relevant posts should be moved to a different thread. Is that possible?


Wrong - completely and utterly wrong. Even EW and AR have much more than that :) I said
1) at least 2 Admin
2) 1 general manager for the sites
3) day to day site operation managers
4) at least 2 dedicated QC team members (AT LEAST)
5) IT support staff
6) at least 1 person in billing/accounts
7) Marketing - at least 1 person
8) SEO - at least 1 person who knows what he/she is doing and does not assume that it's all about black hat links, keyword spamming, stuffing, etc.

These are on monthly retainer and have employment contracts in place, as required by the law.


Quality control is not limited to that, by the way and writers, most certainly, will not be entrusted with self-assessment unless they have an excellent track record. In that case, their work will be periodically reviewed but all will be checked for plagiarism.


Let's see - Godaddy virtual dedicated server = $5,000 per annum; unlimited storage email plans = $30 per month (for only 10 boxes and most need more); livechat with certain features = $130 per month; etc. That is just the tip of the iceburg ...

And, by the way, I am not stating opinions but facts.


I do not use every cellin my brain when writing a paper.


A writer which needs to "toil" all day and use every "nerve" in his/her brain to write a paper, is no writer.

FreelanceWriter - you are one of the very goods ones out there and a real pro. So, I'll ask you this:
1) Would you need to "toil" all day long to produce 5 pages (not to mention use every "nerve" in your brain)?
2) Would you consider $10 per page `hitting the jackpot'?
3) Would you work for a company whose CPP ranges from $6-8?
4) What would you think of a company which hired Admin staff which were not linguistically fluent or educated?
5) Wouldn't you want your work to be evaluated by pros or would you prefer that they just went along with the complaints forwarded by problematic clients, your work and efforts be damned?

Maybe someone could explain the role of the 'admin' or 'customer support'? The description above doesn't fit in my understanding of an admin because it suggests admin could do his/her job randomly at any time of the day as long as some pre-scheduled tasks is completed.

How about customer support (phone or live chats), doesn't admin or customer support need to be there whenever customers need them? Of course, it cannot be a customer support person from Pakistan or Ukraine and then it does not come cheap at all. It usually requires a full-time job of some EDUCATED people to do a professional customer support or admin job.

THANK YOU!!!!!


What about "accent" being barrier to comprehension/communication?


I cannot speak for all sites, especially as there are many legits out there with infinitely more experience than us. As far as we're concerned, each Admin member has set working hours. During these hours/shift, they are required to:

1) manage customer enquires (whether through chat/phone), address their concerns and ensure that messages are being responded to;
2) extend similar support to writers;
3) There is a gap between writer and customer deadlines. If a writer has not uploaded the work by the writer deadline, Admin is responsible for communicating with the writer and advising him/her that they have an hour or two to upload. Supposing that the writer does not, Admin assumes the responsibility of assigning the order to one of the top-tier writers (after obtaining their consent, of course) or of completing it him/herself

4) Admin is responsible for checking work uploaded by writers for plagiarism and sending the completed work along with the plagiarism report to QC
5) Given that the Admin hired are educated, native speakers, they are further responsible for picking up the slack when the need arises (of course, they get paid for their research work)

6) At the end of their shift, Admin writes up a report on all developments, pending issues, issues resolved etc etc ... accessible to management and other Admin members

7) Admin goes over new writer requests, sends management the details of those who have uploaded the required docs along with their application (proof of identity, nationality and academic degree) and communicates with those who have not (just in case they forgot or something). If those who `forgot' do not respond within a specified time period, Admin deletes their request. Do you know how many misrepresent their nationality and academic qualifications? This is a very very important task ...

The above is, by no means, a comprehensive account but may help establish the following as nothing other than a highly erroneous assumption, based on an almost complete lack of knowledge:


Let's say that Admin is solely comprised of educated Brits/Americans and that theirs is a full time job (because it is) - how much would they be paid? Answer: they do not come cheap and, believe me, cheap is ultimately extremely expensive! Same with writers - hire people willing to work for a max of $7 and you'll end up wishing you hadn't.

Truth time - we are here to make money and will not give writers the "lion's share." Were we to do so, we'd close shop ASAP as we'd sink beneath the expenses.

Yes, we can follow the dominant model and hire Eastern European, Indian and Pakistani Admin (they are paid around $400 per month). We can also hire students as writers or people whom we suspect are not qualified - they'd be very happy with an average CPP of $6. As for management, let's just hire anybody! Why should an academic research writing website have to hire educated Brits/Americans?! Let's keep our costs down and the customer be damned! As for writers - let's trod all over them ...

In brief - running a clean operation, a proper company, costs. Writers are highly paid, Admin and management are given their rightful dues, and customers are happy.

Yes, we are not BP and are not the healthcare industry (apples and oranges) but with each order we hold the academic future of a student in our hands. That's terribly important.

I am not disputing the fact that many industry operators are dishonest. They pay their writers pennies, fine them and do not extend them any adequate support. Not all are like that, however. Those who first took this industry online (American companies) have been operating honestly for more than a decade now. Some of us try to adhere to the industry standards they established and a few have chosen an opposite direction. Don't lump us all together ...

BTW, centralpark - good of you to open this discussion as am quite sure you are expressig the sentiments of many writers ...

1) It depends on the topic, but generally, I'd need about 2 hours for it.
2) Not in the Western Hemisphere
3) Sure, as long as they didn't expect more than 90 words/pg
4) If they were a landscaping company or a garage, that wouldn't be a problem at all.
5) I wouldn't even consider working for a company that fined writers the way I've read about on this forum. See answer to #2.

Centralpark, please read FreelanceWriter's response - hear it from a real researcher/writer. He basically confirms the following:
1) Professional writers do not sweat blood and tears over an undergrad or highschool essay. Graduate and post-graduate work will definitely require more effort but, not to the extent assumed.

2) if we want good, high quality, professional academic writers, we should be prepared to offer them their rightful dues - they will not even consider anything under $10 and for that CPP, the paper has to be quite uncomplicated.

3) Very, very few academically qualified writer would accept a CPP of $6-8
4) Professional writers/researchers simply cannot work with Admin and Management who are not educated, Native speakers. Communication is important and it is terribly frustrating if language is a barrier to communication between writers and Admin/Management. In other words - we have to hire EDUCATED, native speakers and they DEFINITELY do not come cheap.

5) Fines are insulting and terribly unprofessional.

FYI - the real professional researchers/writers are not fools. Even if the company they work with tries to conceal its client-end sites, they'll eventually find them out. They'll check the prices there and if they discover that they are being taken advantage of, they'll walk out.

Running a good company and staffing it with good writers/Admin/Management is costly.

this seems like an odd statement, especially in the off-season.

Customers receive substantial discounts during the off-season and writers are made aware of the discount received (automatically appears on the order panel). To compensate, a company temporarily increases the percentage paid to its top tier writers to ensure that they are not paid anything under $8 per page (for research orders) - ideally $10. Its unrealistic to expect a top tier writer to work at, or below, the minimum hourly pay rate.

companies shouldn't limit writers in the off-season. CPP minimums exclude orders.

I have just signed up with essaywriters.net (before I found this and many other threads). I have a question for those who worked with this website in the past. Did anyone provide the website with their SSN? If so, were you getting paid via Paypal?

I know it has been quite some time since you posted this information about essaywriters; however, I would like to ask you a question regarding their website. Did you provide them with your SSN in order to get paid?

This doesn't sound very usual, although I don't find it outlandish. So, is the SSN meant enable the company effect your paypal transactions or is it for the greater good of your employment with them? If paypal is the issue and you are not comfortable giving them your SSN, I suggest you try moneybrookers. It is more flexible and I doubt anyone will require your SSN or identification documents, as the case would be for paypal and wire transfer.

PayPal doesn't require your SSN at all--I don't know where you're getting your information, "forumregulator," but it's faulty. SSNs are required by companies that pay taxes in the United States because they have to provide this information to the IRS (e.g. we paid XXX-XX-XXX $5000 this year). Now, whether or not that's why this company wants it I can't say, but SSNs are NEVER needed just to pay someone--no bank or money transfer company requires this info to be furnished by the sender in order for a transfer to be completed.

I don't use Paypal and the reason (I was told) is that it can only be used by those within the US and its 'environs,' so I remain ignorant in as far as that is concerned. But on taxes, how do these companies account for those without SSNs?

PayPal can be used in many different countries--I wouldn't say ALL countries because I don't know this for sure, but certainly most (if not all) countries with a reliable legal and banking system (I've received payments from clients in Australia, the UK, and Hong Kong). Wherever you're getting your information, I would stop...and I might also recommend not giving out grossly incorrect information to others, or really giving any advice or information when you haven't actually looked into things yourself.

As to how a US company deals with payments made to people without SSNs, I don't know, but the IRS will care less about these anyway--they won't be collecting taxes from these people.

I got accepted at essaywriters.net last month, but I'm thinking of deactiving my account because of all the things I heard about them on this forum.

It's amazing that they treat their writers like that.

If you are a good writer and a native speaker, the chances of their playing straight with you are quite high. Having said that, you need to know that

1) they have an unethical writer-fining policy in place;
2) their per page pay is unacceptably low
3) they are the very antithesis of an honest business

Do you want to be associated with a company which lies to its customers, fines writers, etc.?

I am not denying the fact that they have some excellent writers on board - even the worst companies have some good writers - but, the majority are semi-literate and do not have the proper academic qualifications.

Keep on searching ...

WRT,

How do you know so much about essaywriters?

Particularly, how do you know that they play straight with those who are native English speakers?

No - I said the chances of their playing straight are high if you are a native English speaker and academically qualified. I did not say that they will play traight throughout your relationship or that you will escape their fining system.

I know about them because I've been in this industry for eons and know them through experience.

Honest advise - run far away from them

May be you should give EW a try, although of late I see their rates hitting south real hard but the consolation might come in the form of premium priced rush orders. And yes, the company's fining system can be a pain in the a** especially if you get a difficult client but on the overall, I would not call them the worst of employers-but you always have to be vigilant.

EW is arguably the worst, most fraudulent company in the industry.

True that my friend. I am sure it gets really frustrating when you don't even get paid after working very hard. You spend consecutive hours on the computer making sure you follow every deadline, but then you get fined for no reason at all.

Apart from this if you happen to take the messed up work of a previous writer, they tend to impose his share of the fine on your account as well. But the best part is when you are almost done with working on the order and then they just put the order on hold and cancel the whole thing while all your effort goes down the drain.

And this is not just it. There are a host of other never ending problems there. So I consider it as just a gamble, because even if you do complete your work you are not even sure if you will be able to get paid timely, correctly and duly.

Who is this still working with essaywriters.net? He/she needs counseling. They have also other sites like writers.ph and Asiawriters.com/net, I am not sure. These are corn men!!!! STOP WORKING WITH THEM. I HAVE WORKED WITH THEM AND I SAW FOR MY SELF. WHO CAN A COMPANY LIKE ESSAYWRITERS.NET HAVING OVER 22000 WRITERS, ONLINE 12 OR 25 LOG IN AT ONE TIME???? ASK YOUR SELF THAT. MOST people HAVE LEFT. I THINK THAT THE MORE QUININE ONES CAN BE UVOCORP.COM, ACADEMICEXPERTS.COM. RERASERCHWRITINGCENTER.COM IS ALSO YET ANOTHER WEIRD SITE. IT IS EVEN WORSEN THAN ESASYWRITERS. WORK FOR $2, $3 PER PAGE.

No one should have to be "vigilant" with their employers.

"You think that $10 per page is "high"? (I don't know whether to laugh or cry.) The bare minimum from any of the American companies in the industry is $10 per page, even for an order that is not due for 3 months!

EssayWriters.net abuses writers and gets them to work for rates that border on SLAVE LABOR because you writers LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!"

To be fair, I have frequently done work, in America, for $5-$7.50. This is because I targeted people who were pretty poor, which is a market not often tapped. I've slowly raised that over time to $12.50-$20.00.

What is clear is that $5 is the LOWEST that one could possibly go in America and be reasonable.

I have spoken to some of these writers myself and I must say, I can understand their position and why they opt to stay with the company. I admit that their writers are mostly ESL, okay, maybe all ESL. Which means their writing skills are not really acceptable in true academic writing circles. However, the company hired them and there are some students who appreciate their work, regardless of the quality. They work there because to them, a job is a job. They are only after the money and the food it puts on the table, pays the bills, supports their family. Slave labor to us is good pay in their currency. It all boils down to survival for them. Specially with Covid affecting the income of most people globally, they consider themselves lucky to have a job that, although problematic at times, still helps them get through the economic crunch we are all experiencing in one form or another.

You can understand their position? Their position that slave labor wages are better than no income at all? Do they realize that although they manage to put food on the table and pay the bills, their health is at risk? They do not carry insurance, they do not have any SSA benefits, neither are they covered by government health insurance. I do not understand how these people think. The rates that their writers are currently being paid are so low, my gardener earns more than they do on a monthly basis. It is because of slave labor thinking such as theirs that these con artists believe they can just keep doing students a disservice, while being seen as a god by the third world slaves that they hire. The writers think the owners of the company are helping them survive. The truth is, they are only helping the company owner while they die a slow death based on their slave wages. How? Ever heard of overworked and underpaid? That is exactly what they are going through.