American, Australian, Ukrainian, British, and Pakistani websites - let's join together!

Why do we have to fight with each other? Why waste time and energy on proving or disapproving each other's guilt. Let's focus on providing the best service possible so that our clients are happy as they could be!

Let the customers decide if the price and service is likable to them. Foreign companies will always charge less to be more competitive so American companies don't lose to much with their existence and can help those who are on tight budget.

We should join our forces to make sure the essay writing industry has a better press as a helpful tool for students to improve their writing and research skills. If professors, reporters, or even students take notice of some of the discussions here they will conclude the essay writing business is all scam. But that is not the case, of course.

Fighting with each other we only fight against ourselves and against this business. Come into senses and think twice before you post accusations against one another because we are on the same boat - if foreign companies fail the American companies go down with them, and vice versa.

Peace.

The problem, as indicated by your atrocious grammar, is that foreign companies do not provide the same level of service to either their writers or their customers. Having worked for companies on both sides of the bond, I know this to be the case and do not feel like we are in the same boat. You are out to make as much money as you can without really working for it. I provide a quality service for a reasonable fee.

They may not always provide the same service, BUT they charge less! There is a market for everybody - some people can afford to buy a Lexus, others buy Fords. That's how the business goes everywhere - you can buy a pair of 'no-name' shoes for $10, but you could also buy a pair of Nike for $50.

But it doesn't mean that people working for Nike would picket all day by the store that sells 'no-name' shoes and call the store manager names just because they "dare" to sell cheaper and less quality shoes that would still serve their purpose for many users.

Are you really saying these things about foreign writers in general?

I think the problem is with the writers and not with these firms. If they hire UK and US based writers, this problem can be overcome very easily...

Would being from the U.S. or the U.K. necessarily make a person a better writer than another person who lives in a different country? :p

The actual problem is with the companies. Just to make more profits they hire less qualified writers, and on top of that market them as of American or British origin. This should definitely **** of the Americans and the British and it rightly does.

Some can not afford $18 a page and prefer $8 a page knowing that they would get what they pay for. About the shoe example if that no-name store starts stamping their product with Nike's logo, it would be not be providing an appropriate service for an appropriate charge, in fact it would be now COUNTERFEITING, CHEATING, and MISREPRESENTING and what not.

The authentic people in the industry should unite and fight these fraudsters. I have never lied about my identity. I believe in full disclosure :) and it has never hurt my business. As long as people hide their identities and do not have a reputation at stake they can scam people and will continue to do so. I would here give credit to OR (Hala) for setting up an example of full disclosure. Though she is British, she recognizes and gives qualified ESL writers their due.

To make the industry better we should advocate full disclosure and fair play. ESL writers and companies should not hurt the natives by deceitfully calling themselves natives, nor should natives belittle qualified ESL.

Who will decide who is authentic? Will providing full disclosure stop frauds?
further in a freelance industry, the key is the cost and these companies do not hire writers but rather writers work as freelancers therefore technically companies are not liable for the acts of their writers. Only thing that gives these companies an edge is the handling of payments and if they are sincere and honest in managing payments both for buyers as well as sellers, there should'nt be any problems.

Nothing stops fraud. Full disclosure may only reduce the risk. When you are doing business

Sites that copy "Essaybay model" should have some sort of controls/verification processes to ensure no fraud takes place through their site. If they do not have such controls and they want the customers to bear the risk, then they should mention so explicitly.

Most companies HIRE writers and have recruitment procedures and do not just allow freelancers to signup and start work.

It is a myth my friend.... Did they ever issue you an appointment letter? All you get is an email... the process of getting CVs and tests is all but an attempt to hide.. I work for some of the American employers as a freelance financial analyst and believe me these firms always ask me to sign a Non Disclosure Agreement. Have you ever got such thing from your essay writing services? No way

If you have ever worked for anyone in real settings, your employer always issue you appointment orders which you have to explicitly accept in writing before assuming the responsibilities. Secondly, to some extent problem is with the freelancers also because if they do not produce the quality they shall only be blamed for this and not these companies. I really do not know if you have studied law as a subject because while reading the terms and conditions and writer contracts of these companies, you can easily spot the legal wizardry behind such contracts. In virtual world, you have to trust people. How certain you are that Paypal will never trick you? Have you ever checked the legal status of Paypal? It is'nt a financial institution but still holds your money in case of your account termination just in the name of " Chargebacks" but the real side of this so called control process is to held others money for six months and earn on it. Is'nt it a fraud and cheating in the name of so called controls?

bad business practices are bad be it Paypal or Amzon. Paypal is cheap you have Moneybookers which is a registered and regulated financial institution, though a bit expensive. There is always an alternate.

And yes companies that have physical presence issue letters and everything, juts like a normal employer.

What about those which are virtual? Companies with dominance over freelance writing services are virtual.
Moneybookers is a fraud too.. just google it and you will know the complaints of their customers. The issue is no business is ethical in its real sense... a commercial organization can never be ethical.. be it NIKE or Wal-Mart.... they are all involved in unethical activities but still they are dominating the world. Committing frauds under legal cover is still a fraud too.. How many companies have been tried on account of fraud? very few.... rarity..

I would suggest you to read " Confessions of an economic hitman" and you will exactly know how biggest organizations of the world cheat people even after having so called Physical Presence and none of them are tried in the court of law.

So what are you suggesting we follow the evil from everywhere? I suggest we take the good of everything.

There is nothing virtual. A company is run by people and they exist. Dead people cant run companies. There has to physical presence, there always is, some people disclose, and frauds never disclose. Because this is how they can cheat and get away. :)

I think the biggest problem in this industry is that one entity (one or two persons) hold the majority of the market. I mean that a group of two or three people (that call themselves 'a company') have dozens or even hundreds websites! They have different web addresses and different designs and the purpose is to flood search engines under different keywords. They do not reveal that they have hundreds of websites, of course.

A customer thinks that these websites have different business owners, but in fact these are run by the same people! In fact, every 3rd essay writing website is run by the same person! If you search on Google and find 10 websites writing essays, there are very big chances that 3 of these websites belong to the same company!

In result, if the owner happens to be a fraud then 30% of the market is prone to fraudulent activities too. Then we see posts like "websiteA.com scammed me", then "websiteB.com is a fraud" - but the customers do not realize that "websiteA.com" and "websiteB.com" are run by the same person! Consequently, the general idea is that most websites are frauds.

So if it's possible to truly uproot one fraud then 30% of the industry could be cleaned overnight.

But then, again, fighting on the forum only gives wrong ideas about the industry as the whole and it should be avoided because it is not going to bring any positive results.

Any more opinions on that?

Does Ford LIE to consumers? Does Lexus LIE to consumers? NO.

Your argument = toast


No, I'm sure that's not pheelyks' intention. He/She is likely directing the comments at unqualified, ESL writers who intentionally LIE about their qualifications and filthy crooks like you.


Utterly irrelevant, as usual. Only a CRIMINAL would make such an irrelevant comparison. You know damn well that several different members have CLEARLY stated that it is not about LOCATION. It's about HONESTY, LEGAL advertising, and TRUE QUALIFICATIONS. Your act is tired. Please do all legitimate writers and companies a favor by shutting your lying pie trap.


Are you listening, EW_writer? That's the difference between you and Humble (and any honest, ESL writer). YOU are a filthy crook who hides behind a fake identity in order to TRICK Americans into ordering from you because, as you plainly stated in this forum, "customers have no rights." You also shamelessly promote and condone your disgusting employer's fraudulent business model. Wake up-ESL or EFL, nobody with integrity or even the slightest conscience is on your side.

Yes they do lie.... Worldcom, Enron, AIG, Lehman Brothers etc etc are some of the glaring examples of corporate lies..... This whole system is based on lie and is to protect those in powers...... I don't think US Presidential candidate can even think of running for the post without the generous DONATIONS from such firms.... Every Law on the face of earth is made to protect those who control....

Errr... your turn WB? Hahaha!

Though the corporate lies are indeed egregious, it's disingenuous of you, EW, to pretend this is what WB meant. Ford and Lexus do not sell consumers cars that won't even drive off the lot. They couldn't stay in business that way. The foreign companies I have worked for do exactly that--they promise a decent quality essay and they fail to deliver it. This is the obvious implication and meaning of WBs. Don't insult yourself by pretending otherwise; getting into sarcastic tiffs doesn't do anybody any good.

Err.. are you saying that Honda does? :p

Oh, and if you insist that it's because off-shore companies are much more well-hidden than "legit" companies, you support my argument that "legit" companies are more likely to give up students when questioned by authorities. Nifty, huh? Besides that, the argument would still be flawed. Bestessays couldn't have stayed in business for so long if it did not produce decent products in general. Sure there are a few dissatisfied customers every now and then but what company doesn't have them?

This was not a comment about American versus foreign companies, but about legitimate versus illegitimate businesses. Lexus is owned by Toyota, which is Japanese, just like Honda. You keep trying to turn the issue into one of nationality-based prejudice, which is simply not the case anyone on this forum is making.


All it really takes to stay in business in this industry is money to run a website. The turnover of customers is incredibly high; every year there is a new batch of thousands (perhaps millions) that will never have been burned by any company before. As long as a site can keep coming up near the top of search engine results, it can generate enough income to make its owners happy.

If foreign-based companies were smart they would change their marketing agenda and announce:

"Look, we are not physically based in the US, but we hire the same freelance writers American sites do. We charge less and our profit margin is less, but that is still enough for us since living abroad is cheaper than in the US. We use the same secure card processing companies that American sites do. You can call us at anytime at our Ukrainian phone number: XXX xxx XXX."

After that, WB, you will be sorry because your "American website" will have less and less clients. Why? Because clients first look at the price (other things being equal).

Is America God's gift to us??? I am really amazed to know how enslaved our psyche is about US. I remember a quote which i read during my business studies on failure of FEDEX in Switzerland...... the guy very rightly said " FEDEX... ALL THE WORLD IS NOT AMERICA"

Com'on guys get out of your Ukrainian phobia..... If Wal-Mart can crook third world countries in the name of offering lowest prices everyday to its US customers than these Ukrainian and Pakistani companies have the same right to offer lower prices to American customers....... In the end it is GREAT AMERICA which is benefiting at the expense of hard work of countless Pakistani and Indian writers who spend sleepless nights to meet tight deadlines of their American clients.....

You really have an absurd notion of the writing industry. Most of my return clients are those who are highly satisfied with my performance.

Pumping money in a business does not gaurantee its success and durability.


Are you sure its "benefitting"?

Sure.... They are offered great cost advantage........

I also have a great deal of repeat business. That doesn't mean that companies require repeat business to stay afloat--there are plenty of first (and only) time customers who use both legitimate and illegitimate sites.


This is true, and I never suggested otherwise. Having enough money to keep a website running to attract these first-time customers, however, allows companies to stay afloat without necessarily delivering a decent product.


Though I am sure there are others like me that have worked for both foreign and US/UK companies, this is largely untrue. Many of the writers at these companies whose work I have read would never be hired by legitimate companies for their lack of skill alone, not to mention certain employment restrictions about sending money to foreign entities. Most legitimate companies--which pay taxes and report payroll expenses to the federal government--hire writers in the United States or the UK. Most writers at foreign companies are foreign.

BINGO!

No, I'm not. I was only trying to clarify this statement from you to which I already preemptively responded with the following:



There you go again with the blatant assertions that you imply towards foreign companies. What prevents the same stuff from being perpetrated by sites in the U.S.?

I won't deny that there are scam sites who do this but essaywriters.net simply isn't one of them. They do hire indiscriminately but new writers have limited order selection powers and when they botch it up, they get kicked out as fast as they got in. Overtime, this has led to poor writers not even wishing to engage in working for essaywriters.net because they know they won't earn anything from them anyway.


I think peace meant the quality of writers and not the actual writers. You're right though, and this is precisely why us foreign writers have no choice but to work for foreign companies. Hey, if ET and other American based companies were willing to hire us, why wouldn't we sign up for the prospect of better pay? Let me ask you, given that your American companies would NEVER hire off-shore writers like us no matter how competitive we are, what do you expect us to do, quit writing homework for money altogether?


That's bull. It may work for some sites but I'm sure that the returns would be meager. Why attribute this activity to foreign companies in general? Students are conscious about their spending money especially if they are working to pay for their education. They won't spend on a site without first checking how reputable the site is in delivering good products.

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to apologize for having been born in America; I'll talk to my parents about that. But I never said that American companies would never hire foreign writers, I simply pointed out that it is more complicated and costly for them to do so--it doesn't make good business sense. I also don't really care whether or not you keep writing--as I've said before (perhaps not clearly enough), it is not the foreign writers that I think are morally bereft, but the companies that hire them. Being earnest in the desire to write a good paper doesn't make one capable of it, though. I am not trying to take money but of your hands (assuming you are a decent foreign writer), but most of the people working for foreign companies AREN'T. Customers should be aware.


U.S. companies could do the same thing, but it is also much easier to get a refund out of a US based company due to legal restrictions on the company and the lack of international red tape. Foreign companies are better able to survive by ONLY taking money; US/UK companies must provide a more reliable product to stay in business.

Is it possible for you to stop taking this personally and admit that since we know absolutely nothing about each other, we should maintain a purely intellectual debate?

But they don't.


o.O??

Tit-for-tat? :)


Agreed, but this still doesn't mean that all foreign companies scam their clients, does it?

I didn't imply that you should apologize for being American. All I am saying is that we foreign writers work for foreign companies because we don't have other options. I'm gonna get back to work now. Have a good day.

I fully understand your position, but that doesn't make your claims any more trustworthy. I could work for the mafia because I "don't have other options," but that doesn't mean I could reasonably defend the organization's morality or ethics.

Got any proof? Nope.


That's a load of garbage. Your FRAUD thrives precisely because the majority of your deceived customers initially take your illegal misrepresentations at face value. This is the very reason why you LIE-truth and honesty would hurt your dirty business immensely. You just can't stand the fact that, despite "Western" (US, UK, Canada) companies' truth and honest advertising, they are still superior to you in EVERY way.


BINGO!


BINGO!


The VAST majority do, which I and others have proved. Put your MOUTH where your MONEY is. Which non-Western companies do you claim are honest? (Your employer sure as hell isn't one of them, so don't bother.) Similarly, which American companies do you claim are fraudulent?

PS: Don't forget the evidence.


That's your justification for RIPPING off American consumers? How is it innocent, American consumers' problem that YOU can't find other, legit work? Maybe you should expand your skill-set instead of turning to criminal activity?

Why don't you just tell potential customers the TRUTH (as dictated by LAW) and let THEM make an INFORMED decision as to which site to patronize, instead of lying to them about being "Americans with PhD degrees," delivering horrid product, and then offering them no better than a 30% refund when they complain?

If you are so proud of your profound research talents and writing skills, why do you feel the need to LIE to every person who visits your sites and then refuse to provide them with the full refund that they rightfully deserve (and to which they are legally entitled) as a result of your intentionally false advertising?

Wow.. four posts in a row. ^_^ I guess your employers are really putting the pressure on you to fix the messes that you made. Don't worry, I'll make sure to direct all of the students who come here to your two articles again.. and again... and again. ^___^

Do you have a spine? Instead of hurling more of your false accusations, why don't you answer the questions?

Here's the article originally provided by WB:

chronicle.com/free/v55/i28/28a00102.htm

People, just read it and understand the issues for yourselves. I got work to do.

Suddenly, you "have work to do"? Funny-you ALWAYS have a sudden overload of work when I and others beat you like a red-headed stepchild.

Answer the questions in Post #40, coward.

It's good to be back!

Hey, you're just in time to catch the end of another EW_writer beat-down and cowardly retreat. (Be prepared for him to return and once again make the delusional claim that he "kicked my *ss.")

and waste my time? No thanks. I'm content with reading the evidences that you post and sending you back to hatchet worker school with them. :)

Sniveling coward. You type all sorts of trash, and when I pin you down, you scurry away in the cover of darkness like one of those giant roaches in Mexico.

Not really true EW. The legitimate ones do not really consider nationality and have no qualms about hiring non-Western writers, as long as they are linguistically and academically qualified.

Linguistic qualification does not mean being able to write in grammatically correct English but being able to write as a native. This ability is predicated on an understanding of the nuances of the language (among other things) and not simlply on knowledge of spelling, verbs and vocabulary. I have come across many linguistically qualified foreign writers, as well as a whole bunch of others who have somehow deluded themselves into believing that they can write at a primary school level, let alone professionally.

As for academic qualifications, they are not limited to the possession of an undergraduate, graduate or post-graduate certificate. An academic writer must have graduated from a reputable institution and needs to be both cultured and well-read. An academic writer must know the basics of good research and how to go about collecting CREDIBLE SOURCES. Have you any idea how many (native and ESL) `professional' writers simply eschew the imperatives of basing their study on ACADEMIC JOURNALS and have the temerity to rely on WIKIPEDIA?

Most legitimate companies will hire foreign writers if they have the academic and linguistic skills/qualifications, explained.


We are certainly not in the same boat and only fraudsters and scammers would ever consider joining forces with the Ukranian gangsters. Our objectives, principles and business ethics are diametrically opposed to theirs. Their failure can only have a positive effect upon the industry and will not impact upon the legits in any way.

Peace - when you say "we," should I interpret that to mean that you are a writer? That you write PROFESSIONALLY IN ENGLISH? If that's the case ... well, I really have no comment ...