Using paper as guide

What is my "assertion," nitwit? Why do you refuse to state what it is? Your spine is more yellow than a banana.

I'd like to point out that even if JG simply used the essay as a guide for his own work, it is still cheating unless he cited the work properly both in the text and in his list of references. Any idea lifted from an external source whether used verbatim or paraphrased must be cited.

Please note that I am not saying that JG is a bad person. I am just pointing out that if academic institutions or professors were privy to all of the essay paper buying dealings of all of their students, our universities would be far less populated. Selling a paper to serve as a guide for the client's own work may put companies in a legally safe position, but it does not protect the client should his professor deem that his work is too similar in structure or content to the work that he bought from a term paper site.

That said, clients should always remember the following inferences that can be drawn directly from the BU case:

1.) Companies keep the essays that you buy from them.
2.) Companies keep the financial details that you give them for purposes of payment.
3.) Companies may be compelled to give the information above to authorities particularly if they are within reach of the jurisdiction of such authorities.

So.....are you saying there is now a Anti-plagiarism force that is part of the FBI?

Show me where it is illegal for me to buy a paper.

Get real.

If you are against all of this....then why oh why are you here?

#3 ????? Not in the USA. It is not illegal to buy a paper from a company, nor is it illegal to use it as a guide. It may get you expelled from a school, but you are not going to stand in front of a judge and waste the courts money and time.

Hell even Teddy Kennedy was caught in plagiarism, and he never did hard time on cell block D for ripping a writer off.

You are living in a state of denial my dear friend.

Plagiarism is NOT a felony.


Again, dear sir....why are you here if you are so vehemently opposed to all of this?

Nothing you say here is going to convince a writer to give up the work and try getting a job at a newspaper, most of which are shrinking, not expanding.

The fact that you think that a 19 yr. old full time college student with no job or commitments is the exact same as a career working adult is proof that you are far removed from the real world. We gotta get you off the campus and out into the world.

And....I'm still wondering when the Gestapo will be coming to arrest me.....

It's not.


Who said I was? I'm not against anything. I make a ton of money from students who use my services and I don't have any control over how they use my work. I was just pointing out that using a purchased paper as "just a guide" for your own work is still as bad as plagiarism in as far as your school is concerned unless you provide complete bibliographic details of the paper you bought (which would of course have a very similar if not the same title as the paper you supposedly wrote on your own).


Again, you misunderstand. I never claimed that you'd go to jail for buying a paper. The case of Boston University (which is in the USA last time I checked) clearly shows that a court of law can compel a company in the U.S. to reveal the essays that were purchased by students so that a university can check if the company (not the students) violated laws against selling homework. Of course, this would mean that the university can also use the evidence in the case to expel and ruin the academic history of students who cheated.


Err.. it can be considered a felony in some states given certain conditions. However again, this was never the point. >.<

I hope this clears things up for you.

You can change bits and bobs to make it look like your own writing

They can compel an individual freelance writer like yourself, too.

Just like companies, freelance writers keep copies of the essays and they also keep financial information of their clients (if not directly the information is logged and readily available through Paypal or other payment systems).

That's very true-excellent point. What's also very true is that an individual, freelance writer will almost certainly have significantly less money and legal resources with which to fight any sort of legal demand. A court doesn't just "compel"-of its own accord-a person or entity to divulge private information. A party to a lawsuit has to prove valid cause, and the other party can staunchly fight against it.

Are you really willing to argue that courts in the U.S. are just as capable of compelling term paper companies physically located in the U.S. to give information about purchased essays as such courts would be in compelling some offshore writer in some Third World country to do so? :p


If BU could do it, any other university in the states where selling homework is illegal can do it. ^_^ Oh wait, are you trying to argue that legitimate companies in the U.S. can effectively protect the students who misuse the products purchased from them?

Well, I didn't want you to disclose your location..

Anyway ; ). If a company is located overseas then the US courts wouldn't be capable of compeling them to give information, either.

Exactly. ^__________^ Thank you.

Okaay. So why did you bold the part about some offshore writer? What was your point?


I guess companies or freelance writers shouldn't be responsible for students who misuse the products. If you buy a knife and kill somebody, would the victim's family go after the knife manufacturer?

It's just hard to get your questions and points...

My points are simple. The BU case shows that:

1.) Companies keep the essays that you buy from them.
2.) Companies keep the financial details that you give them for purposes of payment.
3.) Companies may be compelled to give the information above to authorities particularly if they are within reach of the jurisdiction of such authorities.


Thus, U.S. companies/writers are much more likely to be forced to give out information about clients than offshore companies/writers.

Don't even attempt to misrepresent my position-again. My statement is clear and focused:


If I had meant anything else, I would have openly stated it.


Wrong. Offshore freelancers (and essay companies) use the same, almost exclusively US-based payment services and processors that Americans use. The Court can and will compel those US-based payment services and processors to release their records. The offshore location of the freelancer is irrelevant and provides absolutely no additional "protection" to customers in the unlikely event that a US Court demands full discovery of all transactions.

By the way, ask the Pakistanis at Aact how much their offshore location helped them to avoid US court orders.

Hey, just checking. I'm glad that you and I both agree that legitimate companies in the U.S. are legitimate enough to abide by the law and surrender any information that the courts find necessary, just as the defendants in the BU case so willingly gave information about their clients.

Want is your obvious gripe with and prejudice against American companies?

Records of what? Even if this was possible, all the courts would be able to see from such records are transactions of money from person X to company/writer Y. Would payment processors be able to give the courts actual essays for it to compare with the students' work? In many cases, it would even be impossible to ascertain whether the payments made were for purchased essays.

You lose... again. ^_^

I'm going to cut you some slack because your knowledge of how the Internet works is obviously lacking. Have you ever heard of an "IP address"? How about "cookies"? "Time stamps"? Do you have any idea how, for instance, PayPal integration works in an essay Web site? If you had any clue about these things, you would be just as embarrassed for you as I am. In a civil suit, "preponderance of the evidence" would be applied.


You're funny.

I have neither gripes with nor prejudices against American companies. What I present are logical arguments based on fact and affirmed by statements of the people in this forum.


Gosh, really? and you never heard of IP scramblers and the use of remote servers? Ooooohh... and you thought I was referring to companies when I was talking about cases where it is even impossible to ascertain that the payments were made for essays? No, I wasn't. Your WBig talk about "IP addresses" and "cookies" is cute. Pity you don't have the actual knowledge to back them up.

Oh, and what about if we stick to facts:

Have U.S.-based essay companies ever been compelled to give information about their clients?

YES.

Can the same be said for offshore companies?

NO.

Game over. ^___^

Same applies to any country, for example:

UK companies/writers are much more likely to be forced to give out information about clients than offshore companies/writers.

Australian companies/writers are much more likely to be forced to give out information about clients than offshore companies/writers.

etc.

Okay....so, how exactly is the government going to track everyone who buys a paper, what they use it for, etc.?

I have to ask, as I previously stated the plainly obvious. The court will not entertain suits of such frivolous nature as a college student cheating on a term paper...they have bigger fish to fry and are already struggling under a loaded court docket.

For Plagiarism to be even remotely considered a felony, it would have to involve making in excess of $2500 off of it. That's in the business world. In an ACADEMIC SETTING...which is what this whole forum is about....it's not gonna happen.

By the way, don't you guys have work to do?

There are very legitimate reasons why students may use example writing services or writers. One of them is private tutoring - there is nothing wrong when someone smart (even a teacher who works from home doing tutoring services) helps a student do research or even write an example paper so that he or she can use it as a model to compose their own paper. It is legal and it is logical. Whoever claims otherwise misses the point.

I don't think that private tutoring is similar to writing model essays. Private tutoring means not providing a model paper, rather guiding the student on how to write it out. Not all academic writers can fall under private tutoring because we're all not well-versed in teaching. If a model paper is what is required, then the writer can provide so.

In almost 20 years of doing this and well over 1,000 clients, I've only had 2 or 3 people ever ask me to help them learn how to write better, themselves. One of them is a current client who routinely orders supplements to his projects consisting of extensive explanations detailing exactly how I developed the structure and arguments in his projects. Clients at the diametric opposite end of the spectrum are far more common and much closer to the norm. By that I mean clients who don't even bother reading the projects that they order from me, let alone "rewriting" them, and those who pay me a premium to compose the most informal projects, such as one or two-page opinion compositions with overnight (or just several-hour) deadlines or responses to classmates' posts in their class forum discussions. At least 100 clients just in Nursing programs alone have asked me for a long series of 150-word class forum posts and responses to posts. I don't normally take payments for any half-page projects (unless clients are willing to pay the same rate as for at least 1 full page), which means they also typically pay me for 5 or 10 posts in advance to get a better per-post price, because I don't mind charging a half a page at a time off their remaining balance if they want to do it that way. It's entirely their private business how they choose to use my work; but trust me that none of them is "rewriting" any work received from a writer or essay company or ordering any of that work as a means of being "tutored." The same is true of clients who use me regularly for their entire four years of college or however many years of grad school.

I've personally had a couple of clients who have asked me to tutor them on writing. While I do agree that they can fall under the lesser-known spectrum of clients, they still definitely exist. I have noticed that this is often because there's a lot of shame (at least for a few of them) when they ask for assistance for their essays. It is clearly observable how they often are ashamed that they are even asking for help in the first place, especially if they're for larger projects. This could be a good reason why they ask for the assistance. Although I have personally turned them down (considering I am a writer, and certainly not qualified to provide such assistance), I don't necessarily think that it's unusual for students to ask for additional assistance.

The writing companies all claim to write "original papers" for their clients. Which makes it odd that they also tell the students that they cannot submit the "original papers" for a grade. The company contradicts itself all the time. All because they are conscious of the fact that the students pay for a paper they can actually get class credit for and that the student will not be willing to pay all that cash for a mere "reference". The company knows exactly what the student will do with the paper and I have yet to come across a student who will admit to writing the paper all over again, merely using the paid version as a "reference."