you exercise the art of nay-saying.

what I am suggesting is not unfeasible, but does constitute a change in the status quo that is especially threatening to essay company owners. these owners rule the roost, so to speak, in a top-heavy structure of power and profiteering.

the power I am talking about is not the power of writers to refuse assignments or ask for higher CPP. it is the power to stop work on a massive, organized scale, in order to get the company to comply to demands (not consider requests). as it is, you choose what requests you deign to honor from your serfs, while claiming to be a socialist.

Amons-- you'd like to treat your writers like they are the base and source of revenue in your organization, but... they don't have any power.

too bad about those moths in your pockets. I hope someday you decide to start living the dream, and give your writers that 90% you "wished you could" give them.

no wonder you consider my ideas completely unfeasible.


no need for the caps-- we all know that the "us" refers to company owners, and as such, you're not supposed to want these things. you're too poor, remember?

right-- and if companies pay their workers $10 a page, then charge $30 a page... it should be the same story.

it's not just some companies that are exploiting their writers-- it's a matter of degree. it's not a "good vs. bad companies" issue. all companies take the lion's share, while taking their writers for granted; the fact that some do it less explicitly than others is no excuse.

some of you appear comfortable, but will only talk about money. what about sick days? what about other incentives and benefits? I'm not going to say, "it's good enough." it can be better.

FreelanceWriter-- a union of freelancers that can work cross-industry to negotiate and enforce minimum standards re: writer treatment is possible; please don't give up on the idea just because it seems unrealistic, or because I get some terms wrong. I am only human, but I think I have a good basic idea; I might make mistakes in my interpretation, but I think that the basic idea of a union of freelancers can benefit you and the majority of other writers who make up the base and foundation of essay writing companies.

I am just one person; that is why I am here.

no; I don't say this. some sort of formula could be reached between page-count and difficulty.


I would like to take this slightly out of context, and agree.


I don't see how; it doesn't cost anything to get together and talk about solutions.


a little bit, usually; sometimes not. it should be a lot more, considering the cost spike seen by the customer for rush work.

I hear a lot of "nonsense" and "ridiculous," and I hear a lot of "X can't be true, and Y can't work." I am not sure why everyone is being so negative. in any case, if you think that something sucks, you should try to do it better. it's so much better than just complaining.

Major-- please don't get hung up on my mention of overtime. I only said "overtime" because I have no idea what else to call it. it would not be measured in time, though-- it would be measured in pages, I guess. also, I am not suggesting dues or fees, at this point-- just an honest agreement to be able to stop work on a massive scale, if treatment from a certain company in the industry does not meet set standards.

WritersBeware-- your name is very accurate. stop and think for a minute. slow down; calm down. now then: I don't differentiate between employers-- you are correct; I think that they are all frauds, because they do not write. they sell, and steal from their writers, who do all the work, and then they whine that they're too poor to help with even the most basic benefits for the people who put bread on their table.

Amons-- of course, essay companies are mostly run by frauds, so you can't just walk in and demand to see their books. half of the time, you can't even find the place. in most cases in which you can, they are dumb as rocks, and can't do books, so they outsource. when you finally find out, you'll know as well as I do that they are truly taking the lion's share of the profit-- let's call that over 50%, for doing zero work. so, adjust that %, and we have a good start for a bonus program, or paid sick days-- the tip of the iceberg. now, add to that reduced %, a royalties feedback program-- there's more money. keep in mind-- word of mouth advertising is priceless, and it occurs in the form of preferred writers, who equal customer loyalty and repeat business for companies. chisel a bit off advertising for that, then. this is just the start.

great, then there should be a union of freelance contractors to improve conditions, get equal treatment, and at least have an intelligent discussion about increased benefits. instead, we have the open mockery of the company owners who seem to sit on these boards almost exclusively.

these bull-headed vampire scum-lords respond to the light of truth w/
elitism
aggressive denial
paranoid delusions
childish insults
a half-ashamed sneer directed at their own workers
sudden cases of moth-pockets
etc. etc.

writers have the power to organize and stop these thieves from continuing to loot the base of the pyramid, which, as mentioned, was built by the writers, not the managers and owners. after a collective is formed, with demands, then the next step is to organize. with organization comes the power to withhold labor.

they're taking the lion's share. they don't deserve it. they didn't write any of it. their writers did. someone apparently needs to show them that.

Amons-- averaging 40 pages a day seems somewhat impractical as well-- I'm not saying it's impossible, but what company or writer can sustain that pace all year? what I'm saying is that many writers are already writing enough pages a day to qualify as F/T employees, but the system is set up so that they never get any of the benefits F/T employees get in other industries. there's no excuse for it, and it is exploitative.

a lot of new ideas are impractical at first, but then they get honed down and made workable. a lot of new ideas are also perceived as threats. I don't know if it may just be the tendency of these boards, or certain members, to amplify conflict, instead of finding common ground. I'm sorry to have been a part of it, and I am resolved not to be drawn off track again. if you want to just tell me what I "clearly don't understand" and defend the status quo, that's fine-- but doesn't it make more sense, if my ideas are so bad, for you to try to show us some better ones?

Amons-- if WRT wants to waste time and money tracking me down for calling them names on the internet, I'm glad to be causing trouble, but concerned about where WRT is getting that time and money. I'm trying to get employees treated better here, not worse.

it would be great if writers could make $100/page, but I don't think we can judge the median of writers, who are being encouraged into situations of P/T treatment working F/T hours, by manufacturing these extremes. it was my mistake, too-- naturally, no one is really going to get a company car. but it starts with little things-- a stratified system of bonuses, for example. the bottom line is that the people who carry these companies on their shoulders deserve better treatment.

WRT-- I accuse you, if you are a company owner, of being a thief, sure-- am I talking about suing you for calling me an idiot? I feel absolutely free to call you a thief and a vampire, because you steal your writers' sweat and blood, expect their F/T production, and refuse to entertain the notion of them ever having fair benefits for such production. you also make fun of them for having hospital emergencies, making you somewhat of a horrible person. I have the full and absolute freedom to call you such, as well as a thief, an impolite person, and a vampire. I doubt that you are an active writer, as you also appear to be a raving, paranoid, unemployable nut (in other words, a perfectly typical company owner). if you think a lawyer is going to do something about that for you, you're the one who needs help-- you're not living in reality.

while we're on the subject, though, you might ask your lawyer friends what they think about F/T production on P/T employment terms for employees who are treated to basement treatment, through the epic schemes of their vampire slave-owners.

Amons-- I think you know that I am not actually advocating company cars for all writers writing more than a certain number of pages per week. I think I shouldn't have written that, as apparently not everyone here has a sense of humor. it is important to start with how we can agree on the ethical basics of some lowest common denominators, some of which have been mentioned, and which can be debated upon, and, hopefully, agreed upon.

I just want to talk about what I think is right for the writers. if that's ridiculous to you, maybe you have some better ideas. I think what we're doing now is establishing minimum standards, as a sort of base-line. do you have a comment to make about that?

WRT

what are you talking about? are you feeling threatened? look, I'm not trying to alarm you. no one is at your gates with torches. no one can put a plan together if we can't share ideas.

I'm just trying to talk about writers getting together, forming a collective of minimum standards. in fact, some of your ideas are good; here, I'll "steal" one of them.

no fines for writers

and add it to one of mine

paid leave for jury duty, illness, family illness, etc., 2 weeks/year

I don't care; no one owns these ideas. jumble them around all you want. I don't see what you're getting all puffed up about lawyers for, but whomever Mod is, I hope they can also get you to stop calling me names, and make more of these semi-productive lists. you have some OK ideas; I'd like to hear more from Amon as well about what minimum standards could be.

also, I'd like to hear from anyone with legal experience, or lawyers on the board, about how companies can strongly encourage or assign writers to do a certain number of pages a week, which equates to more than 40 hours of work, and then not

1. pay them overtime

or

2. consider them F/T employees

take my ideas, re-represent them with your own, and then call me an idiot-- it's a perfect metaphor for how companies like yours treat their writers.

--and you have some nerve, telling people what to expect. 100% of your business and customer loyalty is derived from your primary resource: your staff of research writers. you'll give them the bare minimum, won't you, and you'll still suspect they're cheating and lying to you. I'm trying to talk about collectivization and organization-- and what are you doing? reacting to that? feeling guilty about being a Scrooge over Xmas-time. well, let me know when you have something original and non-divisive to add.

writers should expect a lot more. they build and sustain this industry. anyone who does not produce content is a vampire with an angle, and excuses.

there will be less time to talk when the scales are even, and you have to listen to demands, rather than just respond with amusing polemics to a hypothetical scenario. until then, I suggest you take that list of minimum standards, apply it immediately to your own company, and stop suspecting that your staff is lying to you. give them some credit. think of where you'd be...

I am just posing things like insurance, etc. as an example. they may come further down the road, of course. we should establish minimum standard rights and a modicum of respect, first.

I don't have all the answers. but I wonder what some of these minimum standards could be, such as:

cost per page minimum
minimum cost per page increases relative to quick-turnaround deadlines
page-per-week cap, with attendant "overtime" (unfortunately this word only approximates the concept)

before moving on to more "ambitious" goals (taken for granted in every other industry with F/T employees that isn't run by hypocrites hiding behind their moth-eaten pockets), like

paid vacation and sick days
pay raises based on number of repeat/request customers
shared royalties on work that is resold by the company
understanding for sudden medical emergencies
etc.

owners: don't be thieves. be ethical towards the people who produce the majority of what you sell.

no one is collective bargaining with you yet, but when that day comes, here's hoping
that you won't be the mouthpiece of your company
that you will be kind and considerate of your workers' interests
that you will demonstrate negotiating skills rather than elitist attacks
etc etc.

your talk about annihilation only shows that you will consider industry-wide standardization of ethical worker treatment as a threat.

btw-- talking about hypothetical specifics-- vacations, overtime, etc., (why not, while we're talking about mechanics, a company car?)-- may not be appropriate right now. I'd like to focus less on the relativity of ethical treatment of F/T employees, and more on how writers can get together and start forming a collective of shared interests.

I agree; they are also expected to work F/T hours. a page-count/hour-count formula seems variable, but I expect that many freelancers work more than the traditional 40 F/T hours per week, especially when it's very busy. true; they have the freedom to refuse assignments, telecommute, take unpaid vacations, etc... and are worth much more, as they essentially control the means of production. the base of the pyramid is its strongest part.


I am just trying to bring some issues out for discussion; I'm not sure who you are to list my entitlements.


I am serious, and yes, I do think that writers should have pensions, as well as overtime pay.


thanks for your concern. I understand that everyone has their own interests. what you may need, based on my own presumptions about your status in this industry, i.e.


...


maybe you feel guilty for being so vituperative about the backbone of your industry. karma is nothing to take lightly, especially over the holidays.

I agree that there are problematic aspects to what I am proposing. it is an organic thing. I am not claiming any kind of ownership or selling any snake-oil. I am trying to talk about fair work for fair pay.

I mean that the producer of goods should be shown some well-deserved respect, for a change, industry-wide.


I hate to disagree with someone who thinks that they know everything. fine... I agree, as a "F/T independent contractor," maybe you don't deserve benefits and perks.


I know; how dare anyone want medical coverage?

F/T writers do deserve such things as respect, medical, paid leave, comp, etc. and just think... if a group (not a "membership fee" scam or a loose confederation, but an organized group) got together, started talking about it, organized, and formed a power capable of cutting off the means of production industry-wide, they could control the future of these outcomes.

I agree about these digital scabs. theoretically, scab-busting must evolve, as scabs will have. I am no technological expert myself; someone else perhaps knows more about a system which could form effective digital picket lines.

FreelanceWriter: I realize that you are at-will employed, but this does not mean that you don't deserve medical coverage, paid vacations, etc.


it's not really about elitism or denial, as much as it is about recognizing mistreatment here is a holistic, industry-wide practice which we need to address and combat.

competition may be a good thing, but lateral movement can only go so far before the same inequities present themselves again and again, without resolution. this lack of resolution is the result of an unfair power vacuum, in which independent contractors are picked on because they are isolated, and not given the incentives they deserve for producing the work on which these companies thrive.

managers are part of a structure of authority that separates the work from the person doing the work (the writer). if writers were to stop writing, everything in the manager's company would stop working, and the customer interface would fail.

managers: stop the alienation of your commodity's producers!

it is really more about the writer than the company. choose 2 or 3 companies to write your introduction, and get just 2 pages or so from each. see which one works best, and then request to stay with that writer.

this forum has no power to counteract or change exploitative company policies through organized action; however, it does often highlight the need for an organization that is capable of such action.

strength is in numbers. if an organization can be started with just a few members at first, it can still grow and recruit new members. if the numbers are right, the organization itself will become capable of threatening established organizations. funding may not need to be the first priority-- organization can happen with no $ changing hands. eventually, if it becomes large enough and powerful enough, the organization will require funding for overhead. growth happens best when overhead is low.

spend more time sticking to your guns!

in regards to the subject,

writers can only stop being exploited when they are able, as an organized group, to not just bargain, but demand, better treatment from supervisors and managers. the only way to make demands effectively is to organize, so that collectively, you can start to sort out the weapons that you are going to use to ensure that your demands are met.

collectivization---->unionization---->power to withhold work collectively----> employer concessions

fair work for fair pay!

the real problem becomes how to organize globally and form effective pickets digitally.

the first step is to actually discuss it... this forum seems like a good place!

it's a waste of time.

please don't blame PayPal because you are too dumb to cancel a credit card order.

there are pimps, and then there are "gorilla pimps."