Which company should I join? Deveraux? Pencamp?

I am a native english speaker in the US and a relatively talented writer. I have applied to work at both Deveraux and Deloitte as well as Pencamp. D and D offered me a choice of two contracts and Pencamp has asked me to submit to a phone interview.

Any thoughts on these companies? Should I dump one of them or try both? Any suggestions on which contract choice to pick for D and D?

The two contracts you have mean this:

Writers Bidding - this means you choose work that you want (so it's more flexible - you can work when you want, only pick the pieces you know you can do etc)

Order Allocation - this means you get given work within your area of expertise. You have to complete it within 7 days of it being allocated to you (although you can specify 'holiday' periods where you don't get given any work). It's less flexible and you might be given things you have to do a bit more research for as you haven't picked them, but the upside is 50% higher fees.

It just depends on your own life situation really - if you have a lot of free time and you're doing this for a living, the allocation one is attractive - if you're fitting it in around other commitments and you sometimes can't do the writing work, bidding is probably a better option.

I work for AA Ltd (the company that runs D&D) just so you know.

Working for D and D will make you go though a lot of stress and nervous tension.I know I have been there,done that.If you must join D and D then choose the bidding contract not the staff contract. But have you ever though that you may make the same amount of money with less nervous tension and less draconian terms of contract?Try joining other credible UK services like prospectsolution/coursework4you/manuscriptservices/*********.All these companies will pay you the same amount of money with a whole less stress.

D and D which is a part of Academic Knowledge and has a monopoly over I think 60-70 percent of the UK writing industry has very cleverly drafted contracts and the deadline reminders/confirmation emails can get annoying.Uptil last year as i remember their network system was horrible which meant that you would keep sending emails and they wouldn't get through.Imagine the amount of money these people make and yet they can not afford a sophisticated writer's panel.I was not very impressed with their slow network despite their high claims so I joined other companies like coursework4you/manuscriptservices and prospectsolution.The salaries of all these employers are very high and they are very polite and responsive.Same goes for *********.

Again Oxbridge writers are good employers as well and they do treat their writers very nicely.
I'm not sure about pencamp.Im skeptical about all these writer mills which pay 4-5 dollars per page.I have tried Allwriting.net they seem much better and the rates are better too.

Some final thoughts on D and D...well it is about time someone broke their monopoly over the industry.I have seen other UK companies do just as well as their services.And yes the claim that "they sell model answers" is just a sham.These answers are in fact handed in.

I was particularly disturbed about their setting up of specialist MBA/BVC/LPC websites and am wondering why the law society and bar council is quiet over this blatant plagiarism.How about all the people who take time to write their own BVC opinions? These people promoting plagiarism by selling bvc opinions written by "specialists"!

Somebody should make a complaint to the Bar Council and have this stopped! And NO! there is no concept of a "Model"BVC or LPC answer.The aim is to find the law.Even if the buyer uses the law of the so called Model opinion this is still plagiarism because he or she did not do their own legal research.

I have a friend who is a BVC graduate who used to write for this company who was asked to write a BVC opinion but flatly refused as this is a breach of the professional ethics code. He sent the request to all the law schools in the UK that run BVC courses so that they would know so that they could try to determine who the individual was that was trying to cheat in this way. No idea whether any of the law schools managed to track down the individual but at least they were made aware of this.

Why track down the individual when the entire company should be tracked down and made to explain that how come their greed for money is insatiable.

They have no ethics!

I agree, I think his reasoning was to alert the law schools to the fact that students are approaching essay writing sites to get their opinions written. I have just spoken to him and as a member of the bar council he agrees that they should be made aware of this unethical practice and he will do his utmost to draw their attention to the post you highlighted.

MAK is certainly right about the email problems we've had in the past. Our current writers will know that our new online database is under development and should be live this month. I have to say though, we don't get email problems with certain providers like Gmail - and we always say to writers it's a good idea to set up a gmail or similar account just for mails to and from us - hotmail is a nightmare, they filter us to spam constantly and we can't stop that.

Regarding BVC/LPC model answers, as for essays, there is a proper use. I used to hand out model answers to my students but I didn't expect them to copy the answer and submit it back to me. Blackstones publish books of them - ILEX give out sample answers too. There's no plagiarism involved unless you start copying the answer and submitting it. Instead, you can do your own research and writing, and actually learn from the experience.

I can't see how writing a BVC opinion model answer is a breach of the professional ethics code if it's for use by a student as a model answer (i.e. not for plagiarism). If it's for use by a company, for example, as an actual BVC opinion, it might be. Your friend probably misunderstood what it was for. Otherwise, can you show me what rule it is a breach of, because I'd actually be interested in looking at this further, just to make sure we're not doing anything wrong. Bearing in mind how much time we spend talking about this on the radio and on TV, and nobody has yet accused us of this, I doubt we are.

MAK, we certainly have ethics, they are on the site under our fair use policy. Try phoning us and telling one of our team (or even hinting) that you plan on handing in your work - see what response you get.

My friend has a copy of professional standards for barristers as well as a copy of the rules and regulations from one of the law schools in London which clearly states that students must not seek any assistance from either fellow students, lecturers or any other writing service when doing their assignments. I remember when he was doing his course that 4 students were expelled from law school for working on a project together and another was expelled for getting his father who was a qualified barrister to give him assistance. By encouraging students to get assistance in this way you are encouraging them to break the code as well as the law school regulations. Model answers are not supplied for students on the BVC though examples of opinions are to be found in the text books issued to the students. Students have to rely on adaptation of the examples in the textbooks in order to write their opinion.

My friend was appalled that students were asking for someone to write their opinion for them.

hahaah!

why would anyone need to "ask" you to write a model answer when it is implied they will use it since they are paying so much money

And if you are so ethical answer this simple question?

WHY don't you give your completed briefs to turnitin.com???????

finally the bar council will be dealing with you soon.This is like being allowed to take a "model answer" of the exam question actually coming in the exam to the exam hall and then saying it is not cheating!!!!

Mak, regarding Turnitin, do you not see any ethical problems with them as a business? Have a look at the legal arguments regarding 'fair use' of students' papers (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turnitin)

Also, do you think it is fair that we should keep helping the universities (for example, by handing over all of our papers) whilst they continue to condemn the industry entirely, threaten their students' futures if they use companies like ours, refuse to speak to us or even find some common ground? As I've said in another post, we already have policies in place to turn away students who use us to cheat - we don't have to put those in place and they cost us a lot of money each year in business. Shall we keep giving to the universities and see not one thing back? At very least, an acknowledgement that model answers could be used properly?

I would be pleased to speak to the bar council. What we do is 100% legal in the UK as I'm sure you are aware. Also there is such a thing as open book exams which work very much like you've said here.

I think another issue that you might not have considered is that our customers (and indeed the customers of any essay company) frequently come to us not because they are lazy or because they want to cheat, but because they need help. Why do they need help? Could it be because the universities in England are obliged to take on so many foreign students, because of the financial benefits this has to our country - and so waive the entrance criteria for those students who often struggle to get their thoughts onto paper? Could it also be that the universities fail to provide any support to these students - no extra help - and grade them on the same criteria as any other student? This is another thing I would like to see from the universities - they are very quick to condemn us for what we do but not so quick to acknowledge why we have so many mutual customers.

I note you did not respond to my post with regard to the BVC rules and regulations breach. You asked for how this is a breach and I have provided you with the answer so what do you have to say to that?

I am pretty sure nothing you are do is legal and I hope that the bar council does not just sit there and watch you make a business out of BVC and LPC....This is extremely offensive to people who actually studied on their own and did thorough legal research.

Infact if you don't get condemned this will be a proof of the fact that the British Education System has become a commercial enterprise.These universities sell degrees and you sell the essays.This means that any person who does not sit in a written exam should not be trusted as having done his own work.After all now a "model answer" is just a click away from the convenience of your hostel room.

And No,you don't like turnitin.com since it exposes your vested interests.
It would be interesting to see these lazy students get exposed while trying to hand in stuff they didn't write.

Finally I hope...and i really really really hope that you hear from the Bar Council soon.Every single barrister/solicitor colluding with your firm to help other students cheat should be debarred forever.

MAK, can I ask why you're here? Are you a disgruntled customer? I'm just wondering because you call people who use essay companies 'lazy students' but you're in a forum for people who have been ripped off by essay companies :-)

Oh of course Mak has to be a disgruntled customer- why else would he want to expose a company that rips off its writers and blatantly promotes its writing services on a site that clearly states recommendations are not allowed? (tongue-in-cheek)

Mak couldn't possibly doing this to warn writers not to join and students to shop around rather then pay through the nose for a service they really don't need.

This site is designed for customers who have had a bad experience as well as writers who have been used and abused NOT to promote a particular company and suggest to students that the use of essay writing sites is ok so long as you dont get caught.

BTW heard from the bar council yet? Love to be a fly on the wall when you do!!

Same question to MAK?

And MAK, also, may I ask if you are against the use of essay companies by students, altogether?

You are right Jen...
From all the things that have been put forward by Mr. Mak, he seems to be pretty disappointed with these writing services. According to him it seems that this is teaching and in other post Mr. Mak was saying that he is trying out new websites to work for as he hasn't been able to find a legitimate one yet...

I don't know on what Mr. Mak is up to...
I have posted many times before that Mr. Mak & WB have same intentions and have formed their objectives to pose themselves as the pious personalities who are sincere with the customers... But if you see clearly they have contradiction in what they say & what they do... God knows what are they up to...


teaching = cheating

Whitegrim, can you please post just ONE piece of evidence to support your false accusations against me? Yeah--I didn't think so! I'm not a writer for any essay company, you ignorant piece of fraud-peddling trash.

So it was very easy and quick to get WB out of her skirts...
Her words explain that she has nothing else to talk about just accusing me being a trash...
Well I have more important things than just running for your evidence...

It doesn't exist, that's why. Moron.

@whitegrim.....Mr Mak and Ms WB are out to kick your ass...yep!!thats what we wanna do ...try and stop us....and your lovely friend Jennifer will be hearing from the cops very soon.....

whitegrim=illiterate trash...btw you should keep on sucking up to Jennifer...maybe she will get you hired at her company....who knows.....tsk tsk tsk

That is a one sided way of looking at things. I've been in personal discussion with the owners of this forum socially several times and they've always told me the same thing:

We meant the forum to represent both the good and bad experiences of both sides. We regret that it became one sided due to a misinterpretation of the forum objectives by a small, but loud group of users. Users who have misled students and writers alike about what the forum stands for and what the discussions should be about.

More importantly, the owners acknowledge everyone's right to free speech and will not stifle it just to please a small, negligible, self-important section of forum users.

Since freelance writers are free to enter into non-binding work agreements with as many companies as one can possibly work for, why not work for both? A writer should geta feel for each company and decide which he best works with after a month or two. Then he can choose which company to stick with long-term. Don't sign any binding contracts as some are often proposing to their writer partners these days.That negates the freelancer purpose and makes one a regular worker without the benefits that should come with such a position. Negotiate during the interview, making sure you get at least 60% of your demands before agreeing to work with anybody or any company.

FYI, a "non-binding" work agreement (or contract) means that the agreement is completely invalid and unenforceable and that neither party is actually obligated to do anything. Typically, that situation only arises when the agreement is too poorly drafted to create a valid contract and/or there's a failure of consideration. Nobody ever intentionally offers or enters into a "non-binding" work agreement or contract. What you have in mind is a "non-exclusive" work agreement; and, by definition, all freelance/independent contractor work agreements are always non-exclusive and may not prohibit the freelancer/independent contractor from taking work for other clients. .