How do you feel about 35% cut for the writers?

This thread is more of a suggestions-box for a new academic writing service website. I did work for one of the websites most of you are familiar with. The website is more or less of a fraud now. I left as i simply didn't like the way they do business. I'm setting up a new start-up and i already have the loyal bunch of customers outside the network of my previous employer to keep the project afloat financially. I'm posting this thread to invite suggestions from experienced writers and students. The way this is going to work for me is as simple as the points listed below:

- Fewer clients, less money, more personal attention. - Jerry Maguire

- Absolute transparency on every front.

- The same old integrated control panel to receive mails, submit files, and review comments.

- No up-front payments from students. Place your order, check the first draft, and if satisfied make the payment.

- The universal features- Unlimited revisions (10-day period after submission), free title page, free executive summary, and free references.

- Writers get paid twice a month. No hidden fines of any kind. If any revision is pending you still get paid for other projects.

- No ESL writers. Only native writers with valid university degrees and identity verification.

- Payment rates start at 30% and depending on reviews and experience can reach as high as 50%.

- Auto-invoicing and writers get to verify the invoice.

- If we decide to terminate a writer's account for any reason, the writer still gets the payment for every successful assignment minus the fines (predefined, 10% or 20%).

The one issue we are currently facing is deciding a method of assigning projects. We have four potential ways:

1. Having a bidding system. We are not particular in favor of this as its a simple invitation to price war and we want our writers to get paid exactly what they deserve.

2. Designing an 'available orders' panel. So far this seems like an ideal choice for project assignment. Most issues associated with this system can be ignored by simply implementing an upper limit on maximum number of assignments one writer can work on at a time.

3. Manual Allocation. If done perfectly there is no visible fault in this method. However, its very time consuming and there is always slight probability that some writers are not getting enough work.

4. Allow the students to select the writer based on previous samples and ratings. Issue with this one is quite obvious- New writers become the less popular choice and the elite writers get more than they can handle.

Suggestions please? Thanks for your attention.

P.S. I am not going to write or proofread ergo please keep your hurtful comments to yourself. This is not YouTube.

No offense intended, but I think that this is crazy. It will never work. I can steal anything as soon as it comes across my screen, regardless how you lock the piece.

As an American with health insurance expenses and retirement concerns, I couldn't live on a 35% cut. As such, it make me wonder about the qualifications and location of your writers.

@graphophobius
By the first draft i only meant like 10% work of your complete assignment. If the student likes the quality and other aspects of the first draft he/she can make the full payment and we will continue with the remaining work.

Also
I was under the impression that most of the fraudulent companies offer only dimes for quality work. A quick search told me that most websites charge studets about $20-$30 per page (standard 24 hour deadline), but pay the writers only $5-$10 per page. This is exactly why i needed an opinion. Though i believe anything above 50% would be quite difficult to pay as there are other taxes, expenses involved. Some of it needs to go to the proofreader as well.

They don't owe you any money and simply because you don't like the way they do business you call them frauds? How about calling all your competitors 'frauds' by default. You're starting on the wrong side of tracks..


I'd add: free bandwidth for file uploads and free email delivery.


10% work != 'first draft'

Still, how much would you pay writers who completed the 'first draft' but it was not likable to the student?

@major
Yes they don't owe me any money. I actually received my payments with almost no issues though it was a year ago. I'm not calling them a fraud based on my own experience, i'm just going by some other posts here on this forum as i have no first hand experience of their working methods now. I have no intention to call my competitors 'fraud'.

Thanks for the free file upload suggestion.

If the first draft provided by writers is not rejected on grounds of plagiarism or bad quality, the writers still get paid (possible exception of thesis outline maybe). The amount remains in proportion to the declared price for the project (example- if $100 for the full report then $10 for the draft that had genuine efforts but was rejected). This part of money goes from our own pockets and we are willing to let it slide. I know this might not work effectively in long term but in the initial period this is important for trust building.

We are also going to implement the policy in revision requests. If any revision request exceeds the original brief requirement then writers get paid extra for the added work (this time the extra money comes from student).

Since you're asking for opinions:

I still don't see that working. Maybe some "writers" would do this for you, but I wouldn't write a word without knowing that I'll be paid first, either upfront or via established rapport. And again, I don't see any quality American writers being able to make this work unless they live in their parent's basement. Even then, there are "companies" out there that will give you in excess of 77% of the fee, which is only a bit workable given the 3% money transfer fee and taxes. But say that you can get some quality writer to work for less than $10/page, then you'll have the problem of rentention as soon as they figure out what the rest of us are making. And they will find out if they are quality writers. A good native-english writer with a decent university degree is worth a lot more than what you are looking to pay. These are rare birds and they tend not stay in the cage for long. In other words, you're fishing in a labor market that is understocked and with little to no bait.

You're clueless.

@graphophobius
Thanks for your insight. It seems i was very much wrong about the percentage part in every post. However, i didn't say i'm looking forward to pay any less than $10 per page and even then it'd be for the least bit complex assignment for probably a high school level assignment. This should clear this a bit. Our aim is to retain quality writers.

I congratulate graphie for sloppily regurgitating what I and many others have stated in this forum dozens of times over the years.

low pay = incompetent, delusional, non-American, ESL "writers"


I can tell you with 99% certainty that ALL of those sites are operated by foreign (i.e., non-American) scammers.

@writers2beware
I'm positive that the IT guy knows. I don't suppose it meant free bandwidth from internet service provider. We are developing a portal with a really well designed control panel for customers and writers. We really don't want to use the free email service providers. All communications and file uploads occur within the website.

@Writers2beware
yeah i've been reading a lot of posts on this forum for about a full week now. Its hard to find a single post without your comment on it. Thanks to you and some others i know that most of these websites are owned by Ukrainian writers with multiple front websites for same company. Keep up the good work.

P.S. its really sad that they have done such a good work on SEO that its hard to find genuine academic writing websites.

You're Ukrainian yourself, aren't you?

Not even close...

No one has ever accused you of being eloquent. One can hardly read any of the good nuggets here because of your sh|t storm of bickering and backbiting. There's a lot of crap to wade through, all of which you are largely responsible.

CypherFromASoul,

I'm curious what sort of fraud you were talking about in the company that you worked. This is essayscam afterall, so it would be good to here about this fraud?

I'll write you under the table--eloquently or otherwise--any and every day of the week.


Please do not attempt to employ proper English. That is "beyond your means."

Challenge accepted! Let's have a write-off! We need an independent member to pick the topic and specs.

Or maybe you don't have the stomach for something like this?

Muphry's law - "If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written."

Prove it.


Dude, you embarrass yourself nearly every time that you try to type a slightly complicated, grammatically correct sentence.


LMAO!

Your sentence:
That is "beyond your means."

Correct One:
That is "beyond your means".

The law simply relies on human tendency of pointing out mistakes of others. Once you know it, its actually really hard to miss it.

Don't you ever try to correct me, simpleton. The period goes inside the closing quotation mark. Clearly, your ESL teacher is also an idiot.

Wow, I bet your new "business" is going to be quite successful.

Hey, graphie, tell your new pal how correct he is.

I'm aware the mistake i made. Though it was intentional and it flunked. I wanted you to make a mistake while replying to my mistake. I can surely bet you rushed for the reply. I would have loved that.

P.S. The other hypothesis that this forum is taking deep dives partly thanks to a big lot of pointless arguments also stands true. Did you even check the first post? I simply asked for a good method to allocate projects and no one said a word about it.

Bulls-i*.


LMAO! Classic, ESL awkwardness . . . . "Notion" would have been much more appropriate.


You simply asked COMPETITORS to provide you with FREE help with what should be PAID feedback provided by an independent marketing or A/B testing firm. Wake the fk up!

Okay, enough guessing. Where are you from, then, Cypher? And this "same old integrated control panel;" where is it from?

Isn't this also "Vaddon?" Vaddon? Hello?

Writers who are likely to have small readership specifically in niche marketing are penalized and they have to sell the books in high price. Writers are having features of writing the essays and content.

Are you trying to make a relation between legitimate publishing and essay mills in order to excuse fining writers, spammer? Your English is so horrible that it's difficult to tell.

I agree with Smiley73 (ref: essayscam.org/forum/es/buyessayonline-warning-cheated-5992/#msg77788): Hence the unlimited revision offer.

A legit company with professional English-speaking writers would never offer unlimited free revisions. As writers, we are human and mistakes like everyone else, but for the most part clients can tell when the issue is human error or actually poor quality.

I agree with this:


I disagree with this:


Only humans are involved here. Even the worst company doesn't use chimpanzees banging away at computers. So even when it comes to poor quality, that is still "human error." I believe the distinction you're trying to make is subjective quality assessment vs. objective error/outright mistakes of the writer (such as leaving out something requested in the specs or using the wrong sources or citation style).

When it comes to objective error or omissions, customers are rightfully entitled to free revisions. If the language or level of writing is inappropriate for the agreed-upon level of work, that qualifies as an objective error, as well. However, after-the-fact editorial preferences or other subjective criticism from clients on issues that weren't specified in the order do not qualify for free revision. They should be handled as fairly-charged paid extra work.

In my experience, most clients absolutely do not understand this distinction unless you explain it to them as policy in advance. Otherwise, you'll get requests such as "Thank you for my essay. It is good but I would like you to expand the section on _____ and also use some more sources for the _____ section." Those would be paid revisions (unless the original specs detailed how long the first section should be and how many sources were to be used for the second section). Conversely, a request such as "I noticed that the essay meets the 2,400-word requirement, but one section is only 500 words and the specs say that each section must be at least 600 words" qualifies as a free revision.

You can save yourself a lot of time, frustration, and potential client disappointment by explaining the difference between subjective editorial opinion and objective error in advance.

@FreelanceWriter The problem with that logic is that at the company where I worked, the clients were mostly ESL who could not even tell the difference between 8 questions on one page and 8 pages worth of answers. The explanation regarding revision differences would fly past their heads. All they know is that, when they want to ask a question after the order has been completed, they should file for a revision. I tried numerous times to explain to the clients beforehand that they need only send a question instead of a revision request after the order is completed, but they find it easier to file a revision request with the question in it instead of just asking a question. How does one deal with that situation then? When I approached the company about having them clarify the revision policy with the students beforehand, the response was that it is up to the writer to clarify the concerns of the client when a revision order comes in. Obviously, even the staff of the company is composed of low level ESL people so they probably did not understand the concern I was addressing with them either. Others, do know how to work the system so that they can use the revision policy to make a business out of the paper they paid once for to have written for them. Sly students are the worst kind of clients. They know exactly how to work the revision system.

I also encountered situations where clueless company customers used the "Revision Request" tab just to ask questions after receiving their essays. (Typically, those questions would be along the lines of "who is Ibid?" or "Is this a custom essay like I paid for?") Since the only way to clear that pending revision request from my account was to upload a file, I simple uploaded the original file sent, answered the question in the notes, and included a note for admin informing them what I did and that there was never any actual revision request pending on the order.

Anytime a company customer requested unjustified free revisions (typically for newly-added specs after delivery), I simply explained that the only way to get that revision was to pay for another page (or however many pages were appropriate for the request) and suggested that they contact admin for further assistance with that if necessary. Then, I explained that I was uploading the original file to clear the request off my account or I waited for admin to handle it. Anytime it was a legitimate request, I simply did it immediately without involving admin at all.

On the topic of customers trying to be clever, I've never encountered that as a freelancer, probably because my policies are clearly explained in my FAQs and my clients know exactly what they are (and aren't) entitled to before they ever submit a payment. With company customers, they sometimes ordered and paid for "4 pages" and tried to specify their way into receiving twice the amount of work they paid for by requesting single-spacing. Other times, they paid for a specific due date and then used the notes function to say that they needed the project days earlier than the paid-for due date. In both cases, I simply used the notes function to inform the customer that the company TOS clearly explained that "pages" were double spaced and that the due date was the one paid for and posted; and I informed them that unless they chose to cancel the order, it would be fulfilled exactly as ordered and as per TOS and standard company policy. In those situations, I usually also cc'd admin so they could confirm that understanding with the customer or simply cancel the order if necessary.


Smiley, I'm not offended, but I do need to correct you on something: There was no "problem" with the logic of my previous response. There were facts about the situation that you hadn't mentioned in the post to which I'd responded. No problem; but the appropriate way to phrase that would be "there are some additional facts that you should know about the situation that might change your answer" or "what that answer doesn't account for is..." (or something else similar). I had a perfect score on the Logical Reasoning section of the LSAT, so it's just annoying to have someone incorrectly announce that there was a logical "problem" in my suggestion when there wasn't.

I still believe that my use of the word logic is proper in the context of my given situation. It refers to all the facts that are known to me but not to others. Hence, my problem with the logic behind the reasoning you provided. As the responder, you should have asked for additional information before making a comment if you felt that not enough information was provided for you to come up with a logical answer.

The term logic refers to reasoning that was conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. So based upon my principles, your logic was flawed. I took L&R in college as well and aced it too. Let's not argue about it. Let's just agree to disagre. Logic and reasoning are the basis for debates, which we should not engage in here.

By the way, I assist LSAT reviewers. Since you aced a section of the test, maybe you'd be interested in having me throw clients your way. All I need is a valid copy of your LSAT scores for the client's consideration when choosing his review assisstant.

Exactly my point. If your disagreement with my response was based entirely on facts known only to you, how do you suppose that anybody else's not knowing those facts reflects a lapse in that person's logic?


Obviously, it wasn't until you mentioned that most of the clients of your company could barely communicate in English that I could possibly have known that my suggestion about communicating with clients to explain what kinds of revisions are fair to expect wouldn't have worked in your situation. No idea how that constitutes a "logical" flaw in your mind.

A 35 percent is already what my writers receive so I do not understand why anybody would think that the percentage is something special. Based on my network of writers and companies, this is the gold standard of paying writers if you want to keep the good ones that you have. Okay, let me clarify, my best writers get 50 %, second best, 35 %, and ESL writers, 25% (provided they do not incur any penalties on the job). At my company, writers who continuously provide the best work quality and being in repeat clients get the most out of working for me. It is only fair since they share the burden of keeping the client happy.

Things Cite has admitted on this forum*, where the mods continue to allow him to inflate his post count for stars, which potential clients trust:

1. Advising customers to hand in work directly to their professor (as long as it is changed by a second writer of his... wtf?)
2. Penalizing writers

* really bad things-- not just kind of bad like paying jack or pretending you can do QC when you barely know English

3. Ratting out clients (!!!)

With the academic writing market being what it is these days, writers would be most appreciative of any form of profit sharing that they can get from the company. That is, provided that the company is honest about wanting to pay them a fair rate and isn't just doing a bait and switch on them, which would definitely cause the company to lose their writers. Writing companies are said to be lowering the cost per page for even their most seasoned writers these days. Yet, the writers stay on because they have their backs to the wall and nowhere to go.

Writers pay the inflated cost of everything, too. If writing companies start reducing their already-low payout rates now, during this economy, I think many of their writers would simply stop writing for them, altogether, and decide to look for some other kind of work, instead: a pay cut for the same work would be the proverbial camel's-back-breaking straw. Two of the only other good, legit, American writers I know went back to things like bartending when AI made it hard for them to get by on their writing alone: one is now pursuing a PhD in environmental science for the alternate career track that he chose and the other is now in nursing school, which shouldn't be too hard for him after writing (literally) thousands of nursing projects for his clients.