HOW CAN WRITERS BEAT THESE FAKE COMPANIES

it appears that I've hit a nerve. you're in management, right? I wonder if you talk this way to people when you're away from your keyboard.

keep in mind: there are many companies with more administrative overhead than essay mills, which can still somehow afford perks and substantive benefits for their valuable full-time employees.

No, I'm not. I simply know for a fact that you are an ignorant, worthless piece of s-i*, Batul.

Should I post complete records of your work history and various other interactions, Batul (aka, "dearbats" / "centralpark")?

WritersBeware: you appear to be using this forum as some sort of release valve for your frustrations with South Asian people, and I don't really want to be a part of that. I'm here to try to raise some issues about writer treatment. please stop calling me Batul; I don't know who that is, and it's making you look even more foolish than you already look.

company owners: 2% of the work, more than 50% of the profit

writers: 98% of the work, less than 50% of the profit

there are countless organizations out there which can afford to pay full-time staff, meet their overhead, and provide benefits. what's wrong with the essay mill industry? why are the owners so poor? are they? or is it just that they're holding all of the cards, and keeping their writers isolated and powerless?

First: The essay mill industry does most of its business online and tries to accommodate poor students. That sometimes means subsidizing a lower CPP, accounting for credit card/debit card transaction costs, etc.

Second: YOU CAN'T QUANTIFY THE PRODUCTIVITY OF A WRITER, YOU IDIOT. This industry charges by the page, but even if it charged by the word, not all jobs are made equal. "Watch an episode of House and comment on it critically" is not "An analysis of genetic drift in giraffes from 1950-1960".

Third: Most writers work from home. That means you have to pay by productivity, not time.

Again, someone in my family is a translator. This is a perfectly legitimate business. She DOESN'T GET BENEFITS. SHE IS A FREELANCER. She is NOT being exploited, the translation industry is NOT a scam, GO AWAY.

more insults and excuses...

Quite simply, fu*- you. The ONLY reason why I highlight your location and nationality is because you intentionally HIDE that information. The fact that you don't have the slightest clue about American labor law PROVES my point as to why your statements are dangerous. You're a lying impostor and charlatan.

finally, a compliment!

Nor of British labour laws and employment practices.

Management does 2% of the work?

Look, use all the proxies in the world but, you should know that they are not really very effective.

Centralpark used a proxy but because we really knew who central park was ... The rest is history.

BTW - you connect to a proxy through your ISP and they are not obligated to inform you if you are being investigated :) Furthermore, the majority are highly cooperative ...

Name ONE online writing company (may be a fraudulent one) that classifies workers [ie. writers that take projects from them] who ->

1. Fully control their own time and schedules.

2. Fully control their workload.

3. Fully control their own bids or voluntarily agree to take a project for an offered amount.

4. Fully control the means and methods of their work.

5. Work on their own premises.

6. Use their own tools.

7. Live sometimes thousands of miles from the company's office and have never met their 'employer' (who has no way of controlling them) in person.

-> as employees.

It would be ILLEGAL for any company to classify such workers as employees. Read about the employment law and still never come back.

Good luck.

Ok - I went through your centralpark threads and other correspondences; had another do the same (someone who is very familiar with your style and mindset).

Went through other 'examples' ...

Centralpark is editor75.

This is your fourth username :)

The first was banned because you blatantly spammed your email - couple of years ago
Second was derived from your email but you are not using it because you hoped for 'anonymity.'

You know that we know who centralpark is. Let's keep it at that.

Why are you so damn bitter?

Set up your own company instead of spewing your venom ... Is it our fault that many here succeeded where you failed?

Think of the harm your doing yourself before you post. You are a laughingstock!

I have been defending you from what I view as misrepresentations. You have done nothing but alienate one of your allies. Good work.

as to who you are, apparently, you're a paranoid person. you and WritersBeware seem obsessed with foisting the identities of your former nemeses upon me. it's sort of funny, but I don't want to get other people in trouble. I'll tell you the same thing I told WritersBeware.

WRT, I had a teacher named Ms. Watson who once accused me of plagiarizing an essay in high school, because it had the word "obsequious" in it, and Ms. Watson refused to believe that I knew what obsequious meant. it was really a great experience getting high-toned and effectual with my subsequent verbiage during that quorum. she wound up apologizing.

there are similarities between the two of you: jumping on bandwagons, going into hysterics, mirroring others irritatingly, etc. however, I'm not going to go on this board and say, WRT... I know who you are... you're Ms. Watson! why? -- it's because that would make me look like a complete loon.

Make your mind up ... gym or English teacher?

Reading the above, there is no remaining doubt ...

Ever heard of 'tells'? Words and phrases ... :)

WRT-- I've made my mind up, and apparently, so have you. I have no choice but to continue to be amused by your bungling.




with friends like you, who needs enemas?

I too am "at the point where I sometimes get more work thrown my way than I want." I think it's funny how you assume you get more work than I do. Maybe I'm the one who gets more work and when you find yourself getting as much work as I do you'll appreciate making money for the easier, less time consuming aspects of the business.


Even if everything a particular person ever posted here is true, that does not change the fact that the mixture of truth and lies found here makes the situation such that someone viewing the boards should take it allwith a grain of salt so to speak. The point is that since there are truths and falsehoods to be found here, we have to be careful and shouldn't take anything here at face value . I don't see why you're disagreeing with me when you've made the same point yourself.

Right. Because the busier you are writing the more you "appreciate" all the other stuff you have to do that you don't get paid a penny extra for. The same way cab drivers who drive 70 hours a week "appreciate" all the money they "make" doing engine repairs instead of driving.

Before, I only assumed that you don't get very much work; now, I'm certain of it. Nobody would consider doing admin stuff to be "making money" unless he were still struggling to build a clientele. Anybody already working at anywhere near full capacity would never consider admin stuff to be "making money"; quite the opposite: it feels like losing money doing that stuff (despite the fact that it's necessary) instead of getting back to working on all your deadlines.

Keeping this stupid argument going is another indication you're not working very much, too. Again, all of this nonsense is in response to the fact that I happened to mention that the more private work I do the more I appreciate what the companies do. Pheelyks said the same thing in other threads and I happen to know that his output is as high as mine and quite possibly even higher. By all means though, keep arguing against that sentiment as though neither of us knows what we're talking about and you do.


Same reason people in the market for a clock prefer ones that actually work to one's that don't even though they may still be right twice a day.

That's a fair point, except that it's also good to trust peoples' reputations, and if someone seems that they're backing up what they're saying, you can trust that they're backing it up in general.


Agreed. I'm far from inundated and even I dread having to deal with bank statements and making sure I got paid the correct amount from each of my clients.

Check my other posts and you'll hopefully understand your mistake. I have found a few other skilled writers who have been working with/for me, who I send excess work to when I have more orders than I can possibly do in a certain time frame. In those cases all I do is handle the administrative stuff and make a few bucks. Like i said before, it's so simple that I feel like it is practically money for nothing even though most of the payment goes to the other writer. Thus, it is in virtue of having many orders that I am able to profit from simple administrative work. It works out well for all of us because I have some skilled writers to lend a hand when needed, those writers benefit by getting good pay for their work and knowing I won't rip them off, and the customers benefit because I don't have to turn down a lot of orders.


But if that's the case, wouldn't it also be an indication that you're not working much either. And to clarify, this all started when you implied that essay writers who don't want to work for the big essay companies due to the fact that some of them scam their employees must be less skilled.


If there is anyone here who doesn't require someone to post responses on his/her behalf, it is WritersBeware. I mean that as neither an insult nor a compliment to WritersBeware, by the way. Also Freelancer, that response is really stupid and a horrible metaphor for what actually took place.

Sure, but when you move beyond an ad hoc system like that, it becomes exponentially mroe complex.


No. His claim is that someone who doesn't say that management is difficult must not be doing much of it. He says management is difficult; ipso facto, his claim doesn't apply to him.

I stand by everything I've said:

1. If you're a good writer, you shouldn't have that much trouble finding a reputable company. If you're working for peanuts or continually getting ripped off by one scam company after another, it's simply because you can't get hired by any good company. It's not that hard.

2. Anybody with extensive experience working for himself and also working for a good company appreciates a lot of what the companies do on their end.

3. The last thing I'm wasting my time on is going through your ridiculously long posts on this nonsense more carefully. This is already enough of a waste of time.

Actually, the claim in question was his claim that my keeping the argument going was an indication that I must not be working much. He too is keeping the argument going. Thus by his own reasoning, his continued participation in the argument is an indication that he is not working much. I think his reasoning is silly of course. I've actually been working a lot tonight and it doesn't take long to pop over here every now and then during a break. I'm already at my computer after all.

FreelanceWriter:

1. You're not quite being accurate. You were assuming that anyone interested in finding a way to make money at this without the worry that some have about getting ripped off by the company must be a bad writer, and that's the part I started arguing against.

2. I don't have experience working for one of the companies but I've got a lot working for myself, and I guess we just disagree because I wouldn't give up any of my money just to have a company handle the minor administrative duties.

3. It is foolish to argue against someone when you don't know what that person is saying, and only a real fool would knowingly do so.

Not the right context. What made him CERTAIN you don't have much work is that you don't appreciate administration.

I agree with you that it doesn't take much time to post here, and I view it as being worth it for the industry, for customers, for my clients. I love to actually be able to point clients away from illegitimate scammers if I can't or won't handle their assignment.


Yes, I agree. I think many people here are taking the stand that either you are successful and well-established or you're a dope and a fool who doesn't belong in the industry. There is a gradation, a continuum, and I agree that many people on it are fully competent but don't know the industry too well and will get fleeced. This site exists in part to protect them.


But they're not just handling that. They're also handling

*Subsidizing clients who don't pay or pay incompletely (which I have had to deal with and simply can't enforce because I don't have the time)

*Promoting and advertising
*Getting to the top of search engines
*Running different kinds of transactions (credit card, debit card, etc., sometimes across international borders) and eating those costs

Etc.

This isn't what he said. You should take your own advice and read more thoroughly.


You call it "giving up money," we call it "saving time." The vast majority of my income comes from work that I take through companies. Yes, I get slightly less per page from these companies, but I have to answer very few emails, spend absolutely no time on marketing/finding customers, don't ever have to explain how to set up a paypal account, don't have to reassure people that I'm legitimate, don't have to explain how things work, or any of the other many things that the administrative staff at these companies handles. Like FW said, I would rather spend half an hour working on an assignment than fifteen minutes answering emails. When you work twelve to sixteen hour days for weeks at a time, as I do during the busy seasons, stopping for even five minutes to answer a question you've already answered a hundred times for other customers becomes a huge annoyance.

I don't know the volume of work you handle, but I know that the companies FW and I work for field literally hundreds of order requests a day during the busy months, and I complete well over twenty pages of writing per day (an average of about six orders a day) during these same months. At this point, the administrative work becomes more than just a minor part of the job, and I for one detest it. It's great that you don't, but if it's something that only takes you a few minutes each day you really aren't operating on the same scale as we are.

Ok, let me explain. To start, you are wrong. Yes, that's what he said made him certain of it. But then he said that "another indication" that I don't work much was my continued participation in this argument, which he was guilty of as well, so the same would apply to him. I already explained this.


I get that. I handle all my own transactions and any promoting. It's really not that hard to get your name out there online. As far as dealing with customers who don't pay, that's just an unfamiliar problem for me because my customers pay before I start the paper.


Ok, here is what I was responding to:



I answer very few emails per customer. From 1-3 on average. I spend a few hours every couple weeks on marketing/finding customers, and I've never had to explain how to set up a paypal account. I don't have to reassure people I'm legitimate because if they're ordering from me for the first time they've already decided to give me a chance, and they'll see I'm legitimate when the paper is done.


I'm not just talking about the administrative work for the orders I take myself, but also for the ones I pass along to my other writers. In those instances I pass it along, the other writers gets most of the money, I handle the very quick and easy job of responding to the request and checking for payment. When it's complete I let the writer know to start. They send it to me, I send it to the customer, and everyone is happy. I would not need/want/have other writers working with me if I did not get more than my own share of work, so it's silly that you keep suggesting that I must get less work than you do. Yes, I get fewer orders than the company you work for, but you only get a small portion of those orders that go to your company (I realize that small portion could still be quite a bit of work). Meanwhile, I get the first chance to take any orders that come my way, and I have enough to pass the excess along to others. It is precisely because of my high volume of work that I find myself in the role of administrator as well as that of writer.

So, your customers are completely willing to send money to a random person on the Internet without asking any real questions, and without you ever experiencing any problems. Amazing. You're either lying, or you've stumbled upon a treasure trove of some of the most gullible people imaginable. Either way, your comments aren't applicable in the real world.

Nice out of context quoting. With friends like you indeed.


Actually, my experience has been the same. I ask for half up front to secure trust and negotiate each contract individually.

Technically that's what all of our customers are doing, sending money to a stranger online. Of course they have questions at times, but usually I don't have to deal with many customer questions and the questions I get aren't anything difficult to answer. I don't know what problems you expect, but so far things have gone very smoothly.

Sometimes people try out a smaller order before they submit one for a longer paper, but I always get paid before I begin and I always follow through. After a customer's first order is complete, he or she then sees there is nothing to worry about. Some customer's may not like my system. I will admit that sometimes customers place an order but never pay, so perhaps those are the customers who are unwilling to pay first. That's fine with me, I understand, but I'm not changing my system for those few orders I lose.

Best of luck in the real world, maybe you'll get the kinks in your own system worked out.


Thanks.
I've considered doing something along those lines but so far I'm still requiring the whole payment up front. If I encountered a customer who was particularly concerned I might try something like your payment system.

SW: Not entirely. Legit companies have some effort at online support with REAL names (not AR's ever-changing sock puppets of fake names), real landlines, etc. Yes, I agree that, ultimately, it comes down to trust (because even if they don't scam you that doesn't mean they'll give you the essay you wanted), but nonetheless, if I had the resources to be able to have a landline, incorporated address, etc., I would.

Why don't a couple of good writers start their own company?

I'm sure it'd grow rapidly if they enforced rules such as "3 bad essays and you're out" for their writers and the customers knew about that.

Yes, marketing and competition really are that simple. Someone obviously did their homework before spouting the same idea that dozens of others have mentioned on this very forum.

The writers simply have to opt to not work for these fake companies. Remember that there is no employment contract between the two parties. There is no contractual work leading up to regularization. There is only a per project agreement, with the writer in charge of his writing hours, charges, tax payments, and other things. All of which fall under the self employed category. So it is impossible to unionize the workers. They are not governed by a single labor code due to the international setting of the work. So the companies cannot be beaten. There will always be new writers available to take their place. They can't be beat. However, the writer does not need to stay with the company. The lack of contractual obligation allows him to leave, provided he has completed the work on his plate before he does so.

How do you propose the writers do that? Is there a foolproof way of seperating the legitimate companies from the illegitimate ones? Do tell if you know how this can be accomplished. ENL writers will be able to tell the difference between the two company types, but the talented ESL writers will not be able to decipher the real from the fake. The About company pages can sound really convincing most of the time, unless the company is really so stupid that their webpages are obviously SEO enhanced, the rest of the writing does not make sense to the student. Okay, there might be one way to tell the companies apart. If the page a writer is reading contains way too many repeated words regarding services, that indicates SEO keywords, that makes them a fake writing company. It is run outside of the US / UK and employs solely ESL writers.