About Grading Papers..

Since WB is too chicken to answer the question, I'll pose the question for everyone. It's no secret that many students submit what we write for them to their universities. I'm sure that everyone has encountered instances in which clients complain that the paper received a lower grade than what they requested or (chuckle) that the paper was written too well. The question is:

Do you think that the ratings and comments given by university professors in reputable American/British higher education institutions on their students' research papers/essays/theses/dissertations are valid evaluations of academic writing?

British universities generally have a much higher academic standard. In the U.S., virtually any paper written by an experienced writer would usually qualify for a grade in the A range if it were actually submitted for academic credit. American college-level writing is not that good; if a paper is just written coherently and addresses all the required topics in logical and grammatically correct sentences and it passes the plagiarism scan, it's better than the vast majority of the papers that undergraduate studies professors ever read and it gets an A because it's a breath of fresh air compared to the nonsense they have to read regularly.

Anytime that I see original work or drafts from students, I'm just amazed that many of them are even wasting their parents' money in school because they can't even write a coherent 2-pg freshman-level essay on things like "Compare and Contrast Living in a College Dorm and Commuting to School While Living at Home" let alone produce any kind of serious academic scholarship.

In my opinion, writing assignments in college are a waste of time unless the student is studying for a field that actually requires a lot of writing. Even when they do it themselves, it's basically just reworded from whatever sources they found through the simplest search and reflects virtually no independent critical thought. You can't force students to learn how to write and most of them don't care about ever writing more than emails and text messages.

Beyond high school, "writing" assignments should be optional or options in lieu of exams.

Thanks. So British-yes, American-no.

See, the question really isn't so hard to answer if one has nothing riding on it. ^____^

i think this might be a slight...generalization. i can understand the resentment about stupid american undergrads, but i think this is generally based on the type of class and the professor. i've gotten revision requests from american professors that have made interesting points; and still have saved marked up undergrad papers from professors i respected. generally i feel there's a lot of posturing on their part, as well as imbuing personal style opinions into other peoples' work, which i resent.

What kind of a pointless, open-ended question is that?

You see, FW, what the mr-n hasn't admitted to you is that, in another thread, he framed that question around HIS personal work for students. I told him that I could not accurately answer that question until seeing the papers, comments, grades, and verification from the supposed professors that the comments/grades are genuine. Of course, the spinner opens a new thread and presents the question as if it originally had no personal connection to him.

I have a better question: "Why do I continue to humor this scoundrel?"

I'll continue to focus on the things about which visitors really care-exposing fraudulent sites and companies.

You do that. I was minding my own business in that other thread (which btw, I already linked at the beginning of this thread even before you did) when you came in and totally misconstrued an honest attempt at reaching essaybay admin with your psychotic ramblings about advertising. That's hardly what can be called "exposing fraudulent sites and companies," especially since Essaybay is a legitimate site. Then when you get your a** kicked multiple times again, you come running here to insinuate that you were humoring me?

I'm not asking you to answer the question anymore. I won't even call you chickens-i* for not answering. Let's just say that there are legitimate reasons that prevent you from giving a definite answer to the question, Ok? Just don't muddle this thread for everyone else who wants to discuss the topic.


Ask it in your own thread. Wait, here.. I made one for you.

LMAO! Has anyone except Rusty, the Incompetent, ever agreed with you? Perhaps, one of your borderline retarded clients has your back again?


Sorry, I won't waste any more of my time with your childish games. I'm going to get back to doing what it is that really pisses you off-exposing fraud and saving would-be victims as much as £1,000 each. You, on the hand hand, surely can't wait to get back to your selfish, money-grubbing, fraud-promoting practices, Johnny boy.

On kicking your a**? Hmm.. has anyone except yourself agreed with you? Other competent writers on this message board may agree with you on many things regarding this industry, but when it comes to your personal gripe with me, they've always preferred not to get involved. For example, none of them called me a criminal when you did despite you hollering it over and over again hoping for them to take a cue. Hey you know what, I DARE YOU to ask them who made a fool of who in each of the issues enumerated here. ^__^ Just don't do it on this thread.

Btw, I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that rusty is an incompetent writer. Even the competent writers on this message board who've had squabbles with him haven't gone that far simply since it's obviously not true.

To potential clients reading the above statement: I am not advertising rusty's services. If you're choosing between him or me, I'm still the better choice. Sorry, rusty. :P

Hah! I've made a complete ass out of him on numerous occasions, after he took it upon himself to challenge me on what he ignorantly thought that I used words incorrectly:

"Actually" is a conjunction.


Damn right, which is all that matters. Do you really think that I or anyone else cares about your self-interests or childish antics? Nope. Do people care about my views on the industry and the valuable information that I post in order to help and protect them? Yep.

I still find it mildly funny every time you try to pass off s-i* as a legitimate answer to an argument. Guess I get a bonus kick in your ass tonight. This has to be the last one for now though, I still got a 3000-word paper to finish. Here goes...

Your response is irrelevant. When are you going to get it through that senseless mush you call a brain that having the uncanny ability to nitpick grammar does not give you the power to say who's a competent writer and who isn't. Everyone may agree that the errors you pointed out in rusty's posts were indeed errors (not.. typos? LOL!!!), but that does not mean that anyone would agree to your conclusion that rusty is an incompetent writer.

Capiche? ^_^ Goodnight everyone.

Good night, Johnny boy.

I didn't realize this was a continuation of the same old argument that it's "OK" for ESL writers not to disclose that honestly. Nobody's suggesting that there aren't any good ESL writers; but the client has the right to know. It's stupid to equate that with asking to know the writer's SS# or other private information that has nothing to do with writing skill or style. Most ESL writers still express themselves in English in ways that are different from Americans, even if there's nothing necessarily "wrong" or "bad" in their work, and that's why most American and British students prefer native speakers. It's also why some Brits don't want American writers; they have a right to know too, even if I believe that I can also write like a Brit.

When I was in law school, I did personal fitness training. I never bothered to get "certified" because: (1) there was no such thing when I started doing it and (2) it's a totally bogus certification that is not required by law or standardized in any way, and it's mainly just a profit-generating scam by the self-created "certification" companies. But I never lied about it if a client asked whether I was "certified"; I explained why certification is a joke in that industry and gave them client references to check. Most never cared but some who asked apparently did because they never set up an apppointment after the first phone call. That was their prerogative if they cared. It's exactly the same even with the best ESL writing: clients have a right to know and it's not for you to decide that it "shouldn't" matter to them.

It's not. It's an argument taken from another thread in which WB insulted my direct client, saying that he/she was not a qualified judge of academic writing. So I asked her if my client's professors would be. You can read the rest from the link I provided on the first post if you're interested.

As far as that old debate is concerned, I stand by my argument that writers in this cloak and dagger industry have as much right to hide their identity as their clients. However in response to what you shared, I also tell my clients whenever they ask me if I live in the states that I don't. Of course, I don't tell them where I live. None of my clients ever had a problem with that.

To recap the answers to the original thread question:

FreelanceWriter: British-yes, American-no.
jwolfe2: Yes?
My answer: Yes. This doesn't mean that there aren't any unfair evaluations and poor evaluators (Edit: or for that matter, poor evaluations and unfair evaluators :p). There are, but my position is that a writer must always strive to please who he/she is writing for if the written work is to be graded, not the other way around. ^_^

WB, get help, and please stop being so boring. EW_Writer is right-- are you going to answer the question, or are you just going to be unpleasant to everyone? this is an independent thread; it isn't one of your troll nests... stalker!

that said, when I am being a teacher, and paying close attention to grammar and spelling, I usually grade papers depending on my mood. this can be influenced by such things as the quality of my coffee, the history of my last couple hours, etc.

any essay company that promises grades is lying to its customers.

So would that be a "no"? :p

I would still say yes, they're valid-- but not as valid as a standardized test, and there are too many extraneous variables to guarantee anything. grading is subjective, but what else are they going to use? a lot of schools use alternative assessment, but that can get even more subjective.


no problem. I don't view this forum as a place to get clients.

BINGO!


The thought that you grade students' work is both frightening and sad. I think parents have the right to know where you teach.

The plural possessive of "sheep" is "sheeps'."[/b][/i]

-Rustyironchains, 2010


Open your eyes. I already explained the situation:

By posting such a general question, EW_writer's goal is to get people to assert that a professor's comments and grade are-beyond a shadow of a doubt-accurate indicators of the quality of one's academic writing. He then plans to take people's feedback (only if it goes his way, of course) back to the original thread in which he will re-frame the results around HIS personal work at EB and EW. I've witnessed this guy's deceptive tactics so many times that I know his plans before he does. I won't play into his games.

No problem. You still have the airport men's rooms all to yourself and your clients.


Truly the mark of a dedicated instructor and an objective measure of the quality of students' academic work.

LMAO!

I have lots of proof that WB is a paid Indian forum poster of ET. Certainly her level of skill in English is very low.

what are you, in middle school?


stalker! I'm not a professor; I'm just a teacher. and I was just making a point. you're really foaming at the mouth, aren't you?


the laughter sounds frightening... like an idiot's!

How am I a "stalker," exactly? (Please be direct and specific in your accusations so that I can slap you in the face with a dead fish. Thank you for your cooperation.)


You have the superhuman ability to hear letters?



Are you slow?


I have "lots of proof" that you have 6 teeth, 5 goats, 4 sister-wives, and live in a cave with 3 windows. How's the flooding?

Hey there, paranoia incarnate. ^__^ You have no idea how hilarious your little conspiracy theories are, if they can even be called that. I already told you that I have no plans of posting the grades that my clients got from my work. I'm not going to place their well-being on the line just to humiliate you. I humiliate you plenty enough times without their help so don't even try to flatter yourself.

Like I said, if legitimate reasons prevent you from answering the question on this thread, then nobody is forcing you to answer. However if you're not going to contribute anything to the discussion, then I think it's only proper netiquette that you stop posting on this thread. Same thing goes for you, Fracturegang.

@topic
So far, everyone agrees that such evaluations are at least partly valid. Allow me to now pose a second question. To what degree do you think should university professors in subjects other than English (Chemistry, Calculus, History, etc.) have mastery over the English language (in the context of tertiary level institutions that have English as the language of instruction)? Should the mastery only be at the level of an average university graduate or should it be higher, such as the level of a graduate who majored/minored in English?

Hey, way to quote me and then post a completely irrelevant response. You're truly pathetic. My quote involves your obvious intention to use the GENERAL results to support your PERSONAL agenda. My quote has absolutely NOTHING to do with posting your clients' grades.

Hey, way to TRY to make other people believe that the response was irrelevant. ^_^


ROFLMAO! Yet who was demanding that I post the evaluation of my client's paper in the original argument from which this topic developed? Oh right... you. See how that backfires? Knowing how stupid you are, bet you don't.

Really?

Now, where's my request in that quote to post your clients' grades?


Do you not understand simple sentences?

"QUOTE"

You are absolutely incapable of honest debate. That's been clear for years. You're a joke.


Hey, Johnny boy, please quote where I "demanded" anything. I'm going to reverse your lies and spin directly up your crooked a$se.

Shows how desperate you are. You made another boo-boo and are now trying to sidetrack the matter using pathetic technicalities. I didn't "quote" you? Really? That's your comeback? C'mon... ^____^


Did the above quote need to be in your most recent post for me to say this?


Heck no.

If you're going to argue otherwise, I'll make another thread where you can do so all you want. Stop muddling this one.

Once again, where in my quote do I in any way request/demand that you post your clients' purported grades?

Do you really expect anyone to believe that you posted this thread with absolutely no intention to relate the results to your personal work about which we argued in the other thread?

You can continue arguing your pointless point. If you have nothing to contribute to the topic, shoo.

@ topic progress

So far, everyone agrees that such evaluations are at least partly valid. Allow me to now pose a second question. To what degree do you think should university professors in subjects other than English (Chemistry, Calculus, History, etc.) have mastery over the English language (in the context of tertiary level institutions that have English as the language of instruction)? Should the mastery only be at the level of an average university graduate or should it be higher, such as the level of a graduate who majored/minored in English?

So, what's your point? Why did you post this thread? What are you seeking to prove?


Nice try, liar. You're so twisted that you can't even remember your FIRST LINE of this thread, which links directly to the other thread about your PERSONAL work!


The ONLY reason why you created this thread is to try to establish that YOUR work is "good," based on the purported professor comments that YOUR work purportedly receives. As all established members know, you don't post ANYTHING unless you stand to personally benefit. If you think that denying that fact is a smart move, I will simply point to your posting history.

Since you can't even bring yourself to answer the straightforward questions posed in this thread, you have no right to demand answers from me. ^_^

There is absolutely nothing "straightforward" about your question, as I have clearly proven.

Errr... come again? I already explained that this thread was inspired by a question you couldn't bring yourself to answering. I even explained it to FW when you tried to sway him into thinking that this was about an entirely different topic. I found it interesting that you couldn't answer the question, so I posed it for everyone to know if the question really is so hard to answer. Apparently, it isn't. ^___^

@ topic
So far, everyone agrees that such evaluations are at least partly valid. Allow me to now pose a second question. To what degree do you think should university professors in subjects other than English (Chemistry, Calculus, History, etc.) have mastery over the English language (in the context of tertiary level institutions that have English as the language of instruction)? Should the mastery only be at the level of an average university graduate or should it be higher, such as the level of a graduate who majored/minored in English?

So, what's your point? Why did you post this thread? What are you trying to prove?

Chickens-i* . . . . You know damn well that the jig is up and you have absolutely no way to legitimately claim that this thread is not all about YOU trying to prove a point about YOUR own writing.

What jig, Sherlock? o.O Do you think that if didn't want to acknowledge the connection of this thread to the other, I'd have mentioned the connection several times? Keep chasing jellyfish with your yellow, spongy friend.

I'm getting back to work. Re-posting the topic progress one more time:

So far, everyone agrees that such evaluations are at least partly valid. Allow me to now pose a second question. To what degree do you think should university professors in subjects other than English (Chemistry, Calculus, History, etc.) have mastery over the English language (in the context of tertiary level institutions that have English as the language of instruction)? Should the mastery only be at the level of an average university graduate or should it be higher, such as the level of a graduate who majored/minored in English?

The only "connection" that you mentioned is your dishonest SPIN that I refused to answer in the other thread what you falsely claim is a "straightforward," "general" question that has no direct connection to your work whatsoever.

LIAR:
But would you say that his/her university professors are? ^____^

As the quote above proves, you posted this thread in an attempt to establish the high quality of YOUR OWN WRITING. End of story.

See how that bites you back again? ^_^ Have a pleasant evening.

Blind much?

As one can plainly see, EW_writer's question to me is not-and never was-"straightforward."