Native-Speakerism - a Myth or Reality. Some useful reads!

Gibberish. You don't stand a chance in ANY form of debate with me, partly because your writing skills are garbage. Every time you post, you prove correct my assertions about you.

As for you claim that I am "fighting" with Editor75, you're ignorant. Editor75 is an insignificant piece of s-i* who follows me everywhere I go. He constantly attacks me because he literally has nothing better to do with his miserable, pathetic life than to frequently post in a forum that he admittedly does not like, about an industry that he does not like, with people that he does not like. Now that is a world-class loser.

this is the most hilarious Freudian slip I have ever seen. also, you might want to learn the difference between sex and gender.


I'm a frequent poster at a few different sites, many of which are positive places. this isn't. I've adapted accordingly. that's not to say I don't like it; it's war all the time here, and that takes some getting used to. but I do like defusing your arrogant lies, sir, and I also enjoy seeing how easily you can be put on the defensive.


anyway, Meo is right. we've gone far off topic. everyone knows that WB is a man, and also that WB is a racist... and his delusions re: racism and cultural elitism, rather than his delusions re: his sex, are at the heart of this thread. sorry for going off track, Meo.

It's ok Editor75. At least you're one of the very very few who understand WB's silly arrogance. Good work buddy.

Yes, it is extremely hilarious that you highlight a typo instead of answering the challenge. Little b**-h . . . .


Why can't you quote a single one of my "lies"? Why is that so very difficult for you do do, pansy? You know damn well that I will slaughter to you, that's why. Little b**-h . . . .


You really should learn the meaning of "on the defensive." It suggests that I am wrong or have something to hide. To the contrary, I am simply challenging you to prove your statements. Indeed, I do harbor a certain amount of frustration that you are such a cowardly, little b**-h who makes bogus, baseless accusations that he can't substantiate.


I am a woman, and you can't prove otherwise. Regardless:



Gee, I can't wait to see your proof that I am a "racist"? PREDICTION: you will either not respond to the challenge (as is your modus operandi) or you will respond with what you ignorantly assert is a "racist" comment and I will proceed to school you for the umpteenth time.


MeoKhan (a cave-dwellar from Pakistan) and Editor75 (an uneducated hick)-what a "Dream Team"!

haha. as usual, I don't need to prove a thing, sir-- all I need to do is give you enough rope.

As for getting back on topic, any more "evidence," Meo?

How about a lucid and rational response to my comments on your sources and quotes?

Did you not realize that I was setting you up? I guess it wasn't obvious enough for you. Wow-you are a serious ftard. So, now, please explain how "cave-dwellar" is racist. Similarly, why did you not quote my use of "hick"? I'll tell you why-you assume that I am "white," and that only whites are "hicks," so it didn't mesh with your ignorant accusation.

ONE MORE TIME:

Yes, of course. I will post on US unis treatment of ESL (you have stated they treat ESL as inferior). I am just very busy at the moment, so patience my dear.

there's nothing racist about "cave-dweller" (learn to spell) per se: for example, if I call someone who is acting stone-age a cave-dweller, it's certainly no active reflection of any out-group stereotype I have about cavemen and women, who don't exist anymore, apart from our imaginations.

however, when you say, "Pakistani cave-dweller," that's a whole different can of worms.

don't you realize that? how deluded are you?

also, I didn't call you out on "hick," because it isn't a racist term. it's classist, and regionalist, and it also represents another out-group stereotype you seem to have. but there is no connotation of race or nationality associated with it.

you should maybe know that I'm a city person, and went to some pretty good schools... just as you should know that Meo probably lives in a house or apartment, in a country that has most likely advanced rapidly to first-world standards (at least in its middle class) in the last decade, while yours has been deteriorating. correct me if I'm wrong, Meo.

as to you believing in your rightness, WB, that's the insidious thing about out-group stereotypes... you blind yourself to the facts, in favor of your preconceptions and assumptions. these assumptions are usually things that you don't like about yourself and your own group, and project outwards onto groups with which you have little contact.

I just hope you're not so ridiculously off-base in the future, when you get around to addressing your Native Speakerism, and how it informs your disparagement of ET's competition, towards whom you are often base and racist. but as to that, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Wow, do you feel a sense of accomplishment in calling out an obvious typo? You're pathetic. An error of IGNORANCE-worthy of being called out-is your placement of a comma after "hick."



Thank you, once again, for falling directly into my trap, idiot. How is "Pakistani cave-dweller" racist? (By the way, I typed "a cave-dwellar from Pakistan," but, of course, you already know that.) Would I be "racist" if I typed "American cave dweller"?


Horse-s. There are overwhelmingly racist connotations in the term, "hick." It is specific to rural, poor, WHITE people. If you were to take a survey in the US, I guarantee you that 99% of Americans would echo my assertion. Oh, and just because I'm a fan of EVIDENCE, I thought that I'd share some with you:

hick
A derogatory slang term for lower class whites raised in rural areas, usually within trailer parks or hog farms.

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hick

I don't know which is easier-setting you up or pummeling you afterwards.

YOU LOSE, MORON.

if it were a typo, you wouldn't have repeated it twice. it must suck, thinking you're so smart, but not being able to spell a word like "dweller." that's what, 3rd grade spelling?

as for using urbandictionary as a source, lol. silly rabbit... you can't use a user-content-generated site as an empirical source. that's ridiculous. go ahead and look up hick in a reputable dictionary like the OED or Merriam-Webster, and see what it says there. PS-- they don't have 100 definitions of each word from which to pick and choose.

on the bright side, from your side, anyway, this sort of idiocy is making me doubt that you have any authority in this industry... or anywhere else. of course, dumb people sometimes make it very far... but I'm having one of those "please ignore the man behind the curtain" moments. I'm starting to feel very sorry for you.

Ah, so your official position is that I do not know how to spell that word. Good luck with that. Do you not realize that making such an assertion merely highlights your desperation and utter inability to refute my substantive claims? We both know that that's nonsense, but you typed it as a means to NOT have to confront me on the substantive issues. You are a joke of a man.


It is a source of reference that directly reflects society's understanding and interpretation of the term, "hick," which is specifically why I quoted it, dip. I find it quite humorous that you disparage my source, yet you provide NONE to support your invalid assertions. Hey, I have an idea: quote a source that uses "hick" to specifically refer to non-whites.

Also, please stop ignoring my challenges, ya little b**h:

you misspelled "dweller" twice. that's not a typo. yes, that's my position. I'm sure you know how to spell it now-- good for you.

you can't defend using urbandictionary as a source. I could create my own Wikipedia page about how "hick" is a non-racial (or better, multi-racial) term, but it wouldn't make me the winner of any arguments. you seem to be confused.

as for your challenge, "Pakistani cave-dweller" is a racist term because it is based on your out-group stereotype of Pakistanis, an untrue representation coming from your diseased, racist mind that portrays the people of this nation as being culturally backwards, and living in poor conditions. Pakistan is a modern, independent country with a nuclear arsenal and a relatively high standard of living. sure, it has its hick areas, but on the whole, the average Pakistani is not a cave-dweller... anywhere but in your racist, backwards imaginary category of the group, on which you're foisting the inadequacies and shortcomings of your own group.

that's my response to your ridiculous "challenge." do you want me to repeat it a third time, or dumb it down a little?

I didn't state that. You're a creep.

You can claim that I "misspelled" it twice until you are blue in the face. The bottom line is that I made the typo TWICE. That's rare, but it happens. Claiming that I do not know how to spell the word-as I stated previously-proves that you are a desperate fool who's trying to distract from his utter inability to rationally debate me. (Hey, why don't you search through my 7,000+ posts and see how many errors you can find. Good luck. You, on the other hand, make too many ignorance-based errors to count.)


Yes, I can, given the SPECIFIC reason I did so. I asserted that if you were to survey all Americans, 99% would echo my assertion that "hick" has racist connotations, specifically against rural, poor, WHITE people. UrdanDictionary.com reflects my position. Again, where's your counter-evidence? Where your quote of a source using "hick" to describe NON-white people?


Again, for the record, I didn't type "Pakistani cave-dweller," so stop intentionally misquoting me to serve your devious, dishonest purposes. I typed "cave-dwellar from Pakistan."


You are a master of faulty assumption and gibberish. "Cave-dweller" means that the person is unsophisticated, uneducated, and/or out-of-touch with modern society. I would assume that all countries have caves. Caves have no racial ties. The only reason why I attached "from Pakistan" is because I want readers to realize WHY his ignorant position it what it is. He is an ESL writer from Pakistan who represents the very problem with the industry-unqualified, ESL writers who wrongly THINK that their writing is sound and thereby defraud countless, American/British/Australian/Canadian customers.

Answer the damn question, coward: would I be "racist" if I typed "cave-dweller from America"?


To what "group" do I belong, smartass? I find it amusing how you try to project your inferior, educational experience onto others. NEWSFLASH: the world is not your psychology class.

haha.

Yeah, you wouldn't want to do any research before making ignorant accusations, now would you? You're a worthless piece of s-i*.

As usual, the coward dodges the direct questions and challenges.

to review:

1. "hick" is a race-neutral term. black people and white people both use it to describe both black and white people. if you're out of touch with black people, and don't know that, it's not my problem. it is further proof of your racist blindness, that you only recognize hicks as white people, but whatever.

2. "cave-dweller from Pakistan" is a statement that reeks of racism. no one says "cave-dweller from America." people say "cave-dweller from Pakistan..." if they're disparaging Pakistanis based on mass-media-fed assumptions of groups with which they have little contact, etc. see above. if you don't understand out-group stereotyping by now, class is over. I'm sick of repeating myself for your dense ass.

3. you misspelled "dweller" twice in a row. it wasn't a typo.

while watching you squirm about these three points is fun, it really is beside the point, which is to address your preoccupation with the term "ESL" being equated with "poor quality writing..." in an industry dominated by poor quality writing of every shape, style, and color imaginable. I mean, look at FW's posts. and he's considered one of the good ones.

and now, if you don't mind, I'm going to ignore the man behind the curtain. have a nice day!

What about this Pheelyks? You're denying your own writing!

Proof? Nope. I quoted evidence to support my claim that the American people view "hick" as a racist term describing rural, poor, WHITE people. Where's your evidence to prove that I'm wrong? AGAIN, please quote a source using "hick" to describe NON-whites.


WRONG, you know-nothing, assumptive pig. I suggest that you stop intentionally ignoring my statements:

I dare you to assert that I am incorrect about meokhan's writing skills.



Hell, let me play devil's advocate again (as I did for your IGNORANT assertion that I am a man) and assume that you are correct. AND? What's your point? Like all of your posts, you focus on meaningless nonsense instead of the substantive issues. The only person in this forum who does not think you are a joke is meokhan, and that's because he is an uneducated, ESL idiot who needs a fellow idiot to be his comrade in ignorance.


He's 100% correct. Your writing would be absolutely unacceptable to any legitimate English professor at an American university.

No, I'm not. English that does not conform to American standards is treated as inferior in American universities as far as grading standards are concerned, but ESL students are not treated as inferior. What you're saying is here should be no objective standards for language, meaning I could show up in Pakistan and completely butcher your language but still demand an "A" in your universities' courses.

Now get ready to read some latest research against this arrogant but false assertion of yours.


now you have again admitted it. However, you're very cleverly saving yourself as now you have added a new phrase "as far as grading standards are concerned".

Whatever you do, I am just going to post something very useful for you and WB - I will see how you're going to substantiate your (above-stated) claims.


I will also open your innocently short-sighted eyes on this issue, and cite from recent research (produced by US researchers!) about racism, prejudice, and stereotypes occurring nowhere but in your GREAT US universities. My bad!

Very bad! I am a different case to deal with. Ah, me.

Ok, Pheelyks, and WB - it's time to pay you back for your arrogance. See what is happening in your own country - you can imagine the material I will post on ESL treatment. Ah, got a place to hide?

Research by Oakes, Rogers, and Silver (2004) reveals continued segregation today. As of 2004, 41 percent of public schools are predominantly non-White, including students of African, Asian Pacific Islander, and Latina/o descent. This research also reports that majority non-White schools have poorer conditions, fewer resources, and higher rates of unqualified teachers than schools that are predominantly White (Oakes, Rogers, & Silver, 2004). Other studies also show that much of the curriculum and teaching styles in public schools are not culturally relevant to Students of Color (Delpit, 1995; Menchaca, 2001). The continual segregation of White and non-White children in schools, the conditions in which Students of Color are forced to go to school, and the curriculum used to teach them are all components of an education system that privileges both White students and White culture.

I strongly believe that for Black, Latina/o, Asian American, and Native American youth to succeed in this nation, we must have strong Black, Latina/o, Asian American, and Native American teachers. I also know, however, that many of us have been socialized through racially biased educational systems and carry skewed perceptions of ourselves, our communities, and other non-White racial or ethnic groups.

Reference: Kohli, R. (2008). Breaking the cycle of racism in the classroom: Critical race reflections. Teacher education quarterly, pp. 177-188.

PS: I am so sure you don't know anything about the writer (Rita Kohli) of this article although she is a very famous teacher-educator in US...........Ah. My bad!

Can you access a copy of this article? :-D

Yeah...added because while it was obvious in context previously, you seem to need everything spelled out real clearly if there's to be any hope of your understanding it at all.


This article has nothing to do with language use or higher education. it is about ongoing racial disparities in primary and secondary schools throughout the United States, where de facto segregation occurring due to socioeconomic forces and perpetuation of white-centered and -controlled institutions and policies. There are definitely racial issues that still need to be worked out in this country, and public edcuation certainly provides evidence of this, but this article has absolutely nothing to do with your argument here.

By the way, this entire article is available for free online. There are actually passages that are far more appropriate, such as the author's discussion of the hierarchy being taught between various languages/dialects such as African American Language (essentially Ebonics) and Standard American English. Again, it is impossible to assert that one language is "better" than the other, but one language is actually used in the world of business and politics and the other is associated with a lack of education. A school's job (ostensibly) is to prepare individuals for a more successful life by providing them a necessary education; the inability to recognize and utilize Standard American English will continue to be a detriment in American society because this society, like every all other societies, has selected a specific language in which business and politics are reliably conducted

Wow, Pheelyks! You're getting more and more rationalistic. I like it.


Wow, how stubborn! When a society is already replete with racism, stereotypes white-only ideology (sarcastically - it is well-known in the serious circles), can anyone imagine if ESL/EFL students are treated well?

And by the way, I already stated that I will post more material. I am giving you one blow at a time. LOL!


At least you can read through it now and don't need to scan only the abstracts as you did previously! And I know how boiled you must be (if you have gone through it) thinking of your attitude, posts, and statements on this forum and what is (contrarily) stated by Kohli.

Kindly, email the url of the article to WB and other arrogant racists like you. Get ready to read my posts regarding how pathetic US universities (especially the faculty) are to ESL/EFL students and how it is taken as a major threat to US academic industry!!! Ah, me.

It was easy to demonstrate that your previous articles had nothing to do with the subject at hand simply by reading the abstracts, just as it was easy to tell from only the quotes you provided that this latest article is similarly useless when it comes to proving your argument. It's almost sad that you still have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

I am posting carefully selected material to successfully substantiate my claim, and you're saying I have no idea! Every reader on the forum knows whose argument has weight. I must say you're a very credulous type of guy.

I don't mind your arrogance now because even if Noam Chomsky (I hope you've heard this name) opposes you, you'd still say to him, "Hey, dude, I get your argument, but mind ya, ya got no idea of what ya're saying". (And you'd sure use many a swear word in between = your home language.)


CORRECTION!!! Idea OF what..... Ah!

No. "You have no idea what you're talking about" is correct, both grammatically and, in this context, rationally.


No, you're posting evidence that you THINK successfully substantiates your claim, but is in fact not related to your claim at all.


I agree. I have raised reasoned and rational arguments against your position, and demonstrated how your sources have no bearing on the issues. You have repeated the same ad hominem attacks and unproven assertions.

A non-native speaker has had a prominent native-speaker (whose "English skills" - to borrow from you! - are perfect) stuck here. Dear I need a quick reference to an acceptable book, dictionary, etc.

If you can't provide a reference (standard one only) that says it's grammatically correct, you should have to admit your error. LOL!

Provide a reference that says it's incorrect.

From a college website (words in bold are incorrect and should be deleted), found here: grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/prepositions.htm

"Unnecessary Prepositions

In everyday speech, we fall into some bad habits, using prepositions where they are not necessary. It would be a good idea to eliminate these words altogether, but we must be especially careful not to use them in formal, academic prose.

She met up with the new coach in the hallway.
The book fell off of the desk.
He threw the book out of the window.
She wouldn't let the cat inside of the house. [or use "in"]
Where did they go to?
Put the lamp in back of the couch. [use "behind" instead]
Where is your college at"

"Of" is unnecessary and therefore incorrect in the above examples in in the sentence "You have no idea of what you're talking about."

When did you mom/dad teach you this word? I think when you were just a toddler. Nice dude! Your parent(s) are so civilized!

You live in one of the most corrupt and abusive societies currently in existence. Don't talk to me about civilized.

Yes I do. But it doesn't mean I am also corrupt, does it? How sarcastic! I live in a corrupt society and on this forum I have NEVER, NEVER used a swear word or even an impolite impression; and you from the MOST CIVILIZED country have been taught such language at home!

I really don't think the US is the "most civilized" country, nor do I know how you would judge the "level" of civilization. I do believe in the colorful use of language to make a point, though, and the fact that you can't come up with anything to discredit me other than the fact that I swear makes you that much more of dumb.

Yes in these examples it MAYBE the case but where is IDEA OF.... case here?


LOL! Pheelyks I am so delighted to see how you drive every single argument in your favor ONLY. You're the man, dude!

That specific case might not be listed, but the rule is very easy to perceive--when prepositions like "of" are not necessary, they are incorrect. "I am of the opinion" requires "of" because otherwise the meaning of the sentence changes. "No idea what" and "no idea of what" mean the exact same thing, therefore the "of" is incorrect.

I'm not sure why I'm taking this much time to explain it to you when you're clearly arguing just to argue, and because you probably still don;t understand, but maybe this will be useful to someone else.


What does this even mean?

WB - based on your revolting rhetoric you are suggesting that calling an African a monkey is not racist because after all is calling a (white) American a monkey racist.

I have found all of your posts here to be disgusting and highly offensive.

You don't strike me as someone who will maybe take that on board but please remember I have no reason to attack you or judge you. I simply somehow found myself reading this thread for reasons related to me needing knowledge regarding the academic writing industry.

I do not want any conflict but felt so strongly that all you were saying was so out of order that I had to comment.

(y)

+1

editor75 = -1 IQ


Firstly, greetings, newest idiot. Secondly, your analogy has absolutely no correlation to my statements and you clearly do not understand the point that I was making. Sorry.


Really? You have read "all" of my 7,160 posts? What I have found-after reading "all" 5 of your posts-is that you are an incompetent, pea-brain fool.

+1.

You're so right to have seen the real face of WB. S/he also uses a lot of swear words that her/his parent(s) taught her/him at home. She is also arrogant. After I have posted recent research material, s/he is still arrogant to admit her/his racism.

Anyway, thanks for your impartial views.


No one but you understand everything. You're the best of the best from the white-centered arrogant people that are a big obstacle for US Govt. to curb ever-increasing racism in the US against African Americans, Asians, and other races. So sad!

You should listen to MJ's song Black or White!


Just look up in a dictionary and find out the uses of IDEA with OF.

I was just checking how good you are at checking things you use frequently (you get 2 out of 10). Now listen you perfect native English speaker.

Idea is used with OF in formal language. When it's used without OF (as you did), it's regarded INFORMAL usage. Check Oxford, Webster, etc.

A non-native speaker of English (ESL garbage! - note your racism and arrogance) is correcting and telling the actual usage of a noun to a Native-Speaker = second to Socrates! My bad :-(


Editor75, do you take notice how proud s/he is of the number of posts s/he's made in this forum: Full of insults, racist language, arrogance, and inferiority complex?

I wonder what kind of writers US society has produced. If this is the standard, what would be the substandard product. :-(

THAT is racist. Learn the difference, you hypocritical moron.