When the term"Native writers" becomes misleading

I think there is only one site online operated by native speakers and that is Uk essays (the other is Custom papers but it is in the US). Other than that, there are only Ukrainians, Pakistanis, Russians, Indians, and US citizens(those who are not originally native but relocated from elsewhere to US and became nationals). My question is why there is so much emphasis on "native writers"? when it has no such relevance and truth in the paper mill industry? Btw, a non-native speaker can be a good writer and a native speaker can be extremely sloppy and vice versa.

This is because of some pudding-heads who do not understand the requirements of being able to write academic papers. They feel the need to produce "Shakespeares" in this industry, albeit the students they are writing for are not experts themselves. Secondly, ESL writers have given so much importance to these EFL crackpots by portraying themselves as native-writers. ESL writers should be proud of themselves, if they can write quality papers that meet the clients' requirements.

You, sir, are an idiot. American citizens of British decent are native speakers of the English language. Open a history book. Study the American colonies, nitwit.

Hmm.WB, you lack common sense and clearly can't understand anything coherently. A native is a native no matter if he is in Dubai for ages. All the non natives were referred to and most prolly you are one of that lot. And its descent not decent. I know MsWord could not help you this time.lol stop murdering the language plz.I agree with you amnateeb. You have some sanity thankfully.

Awesome!

WHAT? What are you trying to say, Akbar? Wipe the froth from your gaping, tooth-challenged mouth and get your twisted, back-asswards, cave-dwellar logic straightened out.


Only a desperate idiot calls out an obvious typo.


Indeed . . . .

Well.. consider the interest in native speakers in most cases as a purely practical matter:

If I look like I grew up on a farm in the Midwest and speak a perfect General American (basically the North Midland) accent, but "expressing verbiage in profundity of abundance" in the essays I hand in to a professor.. that's going to be awfully suspicious.

Some ESL writers can produce perfect, idiomatically correct written English. But the errors of those who do not are generally not the same sort of errors made by native speakers who write badly. Unless an ESL writer is very nearly perfect, when those mistakes pop up it often just sounds like an ESL writer.

Nothing wrong with that in of itself; mistakes don't necessary make for a bad paper. In fact, I don't think a student's grammar ever influenced the grade I gave their essay in my time as TA - though maybe that's given more emphasis at lower tier schools. If I'd ever received a paper that seemed it was written by an ESL writer when the student was clearly not, however.. that I would have been looking into.

That caliber of ESL writer simply does not represent the average, ESL writer in the "essay" industry. That's the problem.

Unqualified, ESL writers (like klosegoal and amnateeb) truly believe that there is nothing wrong with their writing because they were taught-or otherwise learned-English incorrectly.

essayscam.org/forum/wc/thesis-writers-expected-know-use-spss-stats-analysis-2785/

Just dropping by. ROFLMAO! ^

Stating that there are "countless foreign, ESL writers who write as well as I do in the English language" has absolutely no correlation to the qualifications of the average, ESL writer in the "essay" industry.

Get back to making your peanuts, loser.

Sigh, so if you indeed believe that there are "countless foreign, ESL writers who write as well as I do in the English language," where do you suppose a number of these "countless foreign, ESL writers" work? Are you proposing that they are all celebrated authors? :p

These silly contradictions of yours are just too funny to ignore. ^_^

I once had an economics teacher who was exceptionally gifted in the field of economics and particularly in the much feared econometrics sub-discipline. One good thing about her was that she made the topic look easy and accessible. No doubt, she was exceptionally talented in making students like and understand the topic. Problem was that she had difficulties in expressing herself orally but she compensated this with her well detailed and simplified handouts that helped us understand the subject. Being an expert in a particular discipline and not able to express yourself can be a hindrance, especially if you choose teaching as a career. Conversely, I had friends from Canada who were really talented in written English but their performance was dismal.

In my opinion, it is a "two way system"; you can fully master the English language(or any other language for that matter) but fail dismally in your chosen field or you can really be talented in your field but your linguistic skills let you down. Either way, the key is to be an expert in your field and possess linguistic tools to enable you disseminate your skills in your respective field.

LMAO, who is Akber? WB, two replies and two non-sensical rants from you. Please spout some more slur just to prove that you still rely on eminem's rap to sound like an EFl when you obviously aren't. Lol.

If you judge others' qualifications only on the basis of English language, then you are no more than a restless wanker. I am in no way responsible for your illiteracy and inadequacy.

First, I have never claimed that there is nothing wrong with an ESL writer who has not learned English correctly. At least, I am gaining from what I "have learned" and "am still learning". I am an ESL writer and my clients know it. You yourself claim that native-speakers can quickly recognize if the writer is a native- or nonnative-speaker. The clients pick me for writing their papers, knowing that I am an ESL writer. They themselves are ESL students. Where does the problem lie? Let the students who I write papers for judge my abilities. My clients are happy for what they get from me, and they know how much qualified I am.

Secondly, I have never offered my services to you, so you better rest in peace. I am really comfortable with writing papers for students who want me to write for them. And that's none of your business. Cheer up!


Actually, I never lick your boots. In fact, I hit your head with your own dirty boots, and then put them in your slobbering mouth. Therein lies the problem for you, ignorant tom-fool.


What if you come across a paper handed in by an ESL student, but seems to be written by a native writer? Would you not suspect he/she has outsourced the work?

For it to be a "contradiction," I would have had to state that there are "NO foreign, ESL writers in the essay industry who write as well as I do in the English language." Did I state that, moron? No. F?*k off and get back to your peanuts.


BINGO!


LOL, indeed. Simpleton . . . .

Not at all. The contradictory term of countless is not none, "dumb." :p Did you even take Logic 101? ^_^

Speaking of logic, if there are countless competent ESL writers then it is very reasonable to think that many of them would be in the writing industry. It is illogical for many of these countless ESL writers (or any other group of people for that matter) to choose a profession that they do not excel in. So, it is either the case that a majority of these people are in the essay writing industry, or a majority of them are in some other profession where competent writing talents are appreciated. Being countless, it is even possible for a strong number of competent ESL writers to be in both.

You're a moron. Do you realize that that are probably hundreds of thousands of ESL writers in the essay industry? NEVER have I stated-or even suggested-that there are "no" competent, ESL writers in the essay writing industry. You're trying to create a debate where there isn't one. Turn around, leave, and I'll pretend that you didn't show up just to embarrass yourself again.

By the way, why are you still barking up this tree? Are you still mad because I outed you as a complete loser who falsely posed as an "ESL" writer for YEARS because you couldn't legitimately refute my claims about the average, ESL writer in the essay industry? You had to PRETEND to be an ESL writer in order to misrepresent YOURSELF as an example of the type of "competent ESL writer" who you humorously suggest is the "norm" in the industry. Seriously-how pathetic is that? ANSWER: very.

I thought not. What's interesting is that Logic 101 is a usual prerequisite freshman course in tertiary education programs. Hmm... ^__^


So what is your proof that most of those hundreds of thousands do not come from the countless competent ESL writers that you spoke of?


I'm still happy that you are none the wiser about anything that you think you know about me. ^__^ But hey, since you brought it up, are you still sore about the following times I've kicked your sorry a**?

^____^

Listen, moron, I'm not going to waste forum space humoring you. Those days are done. People are tired of your useless posts and tired propaganda. You bring nothing to the table. People know who's right and who's wrong. Until you can quote me claiming that there are "no" legit, ESL writers in the essay industry, you have no argument whatsoever. You can keep spouting off about "logic" courses all day long, but it is clear to any lucid person that you're grasping at straws.

84 words, 0 substance. Classic WBulls-i*. ^___^ I'm not asking you to humor me. It isn't my fault that you are compelled to respond in your defense. The facts remain that you said:


and this statement:


is logically flawed.

You obviously have nothing more to say, but don't let me stop you from ranting further. It is so very entertaining. ^____________^

WRONG. Good luck getting any sane person to agree with you. Ta ta!

Case in point:


^__^

You're right. I have nothing more to "say." My point is solid and final. You lost before and you lost again. Until you find a sane person to agree with you, I'm not going to continue to beat you (i.e., the dead horse).

..and yet you felt the compulsion to re-post the worthless statement that you made in another thread. Funny. ^__^

Agree with me that there are countless ESL writers who write as well as you do in the English language? Hmm... let's see:


Now, it there was only some way to convince everyone here that the statement above came from a "sane person."

HAHAHAHA!!! ^____________^

The fact that you don't recognize the fatal flaw in your argument speaks volumes about your mental state.

The fact that you remain utterly incapable of addressing the logic of my argument speaks volumes of your writing ability (it's not all about grammar and spelling, you know).

Oh and by the way, is this more of you not humoring me? :p

What I am not "humoring" are your childish antics and smiley faces.


You're right.

Yes, I am.


Oh, so what are you humoring? My logical argument which you continue to dream of disproving? ^__^

See the content of your previous post-childish bulls-i* that wastes people's time and clutters the forum.

So this is what you call "not humoring?" Very interesting. I you continue to "defend" yourself without actually presenting any reasonable argument in your defense. That's what I find humorous. ^__^

Yes, I have . . . you just make believe that I did not already slap you in the face. FYI, moron, the "average" is hardly impacted by the rare extreme. AGAIN: Keep your head in the sand. Nobody can see you.

Please don't confuse the argument that I made in this thread with the ones I made here.

The arguments in this thread are the following:

1.) "none" is not the contradiction of "countless."

2.) The countless competent ESL writers that you spoke of must be employed somewhere. Since they excel at writing, I argue that a large number of them are employed in the essay writing industry.

countless = many
none = zero

Therefore, "none" can be considered the opposite of "countless."


Well, no s-i*, Sherlocke. However, because they ARE competent, they sure as hell don't have to settle for the PEANUTS that the largely offshore, ripoff essay companies pay foreign, ESL writers. Such competent, ESL writers work for mainstream companies and, on average, probably make FAR more money than you.


Well, your argument is flawed, as I already explained. Plus, if there are so many of them (you know, ESL essay writers with writing skills equal to mine), why has one NEVER posted in this forum?

Why do you insist on displaying your ignorance? "None" cannot be considered as the "opposite" of countless. They are not contradictory. The contradictory term of none is "some." Logic 101.

Furthermore, it was you who insisted that "none" was the only contradiction of "countless."

none = "not one"
countless = "many more than one"


Proof? The fact of the matter is that ANY number greater than 1 can be considered the opposite of none. Good luck proving otherwise.


Gee, how far-fetched . . . .


What, no answer?

No, it can't. An opposite is a contradictory term. There is only 1 contradictory term for every term. The contradictory term of 0 cannot be 1, but x such that x is not equal to 0. While it is true that 1 is not equal to 0, it is wrong to claim that 1 is the opposite of 0.


But that came from you, not me. We were looking for where the countless competent ESL writers were, and you suggested that


So, it's good to know that you think the countless competent ESL writers you were talking about work for "mainstream" essay writing companies.


I answered this in the other thread. I said: Sorry, but until each person in this forum posts definite, undeniable proof of his/her ethnic origin, this question is worthless.

Stop trying to blur the argument.

none = "not one"
countless = "many more than one"

Any number greater than 0 can be considered the opposite of 0 simply because it exists! End of story.


I never stated any such thing. As I explained, there are no "mainstream" essay companies.


Yeah, and I responded by stating that you are a coward for taking that slimy way out.

What is the point of being "it" when I know you won't agree? Even if it is pheeLeaks or Freelancewriter, you will suspect their sanity. Isn't it? Lol!

I highly doubt that either one of them would disagree with my position on this matter.

Exactly. Native speakers make characteristic mistakes of grammar and even those mistakes are recognizeable as those of native speakers. ESLs often know not to make some of the typical mistakes made by many native speakers who aren't very good writers, but the types of mistakes that ESLs typically do make are never made by even the worst native-speaking writers. That's why some of us are so opposed to ESLs marketing themselves falsely as native speakers and it's the reason customers have a right to know that you're ESL if you are: your English sounds different to any native speaker even if the content of your writing is good and your grammar is technically correct. If your writing weren't so easily recognizeable as ESL writing, nobody would care one way or the other. The fact is that it does and that's why customers care about it and have a right to know whether they're hiring a native English speaker or an ESL writer.