I see that you are posting this wherever you can. You have my ear - what was the scam?

The site looks legit and the registrant address is in Chicago. I'd be interested to hear if they produce a quality product. There doesn't seem to be very many quantitative academic ghostwriters here?

I know that my evidence is anecdotal, but I have seen plenty of students with top marks who have failed horribly when it came time to do self-directed work. Generally speaking, yes, high marks will translate into success, however it seem to be only one piece of the puzzle.

Just a few questions: So what's it going to take to make it as lucrative as it once was? Are the plagiarism sites collecting and redistributing the essays that they claim to check for plagiarism? I'm also curious what it would it take to purchase one of these defunct sets of essays? Disclaimer: I'm shamelessly sniffing around here for opportunity.

Well, not exactly. I appreciate your honesty and hope that you get a lot of work. Your remarks are helpful and cause me to ponder a few issues. I'm not so sure that the competition has become lethal as much as it has become muddled. The number of scammers encountered by any one person on the web has seemingly increased over the years. I'll just speculate now and say that the ratio of good to bad ESL ghostwriters seems to be very low.

I may be wrong, but as I push my way to the academic ghostwriter's table it seems a major way to remain competitive is to set myself apart from the ESL folks. I imagine that it is even more difficult for the legitimate (I feel weird using that word here) ESL ghostwriters. There are simply a lot of ESL scammers out there - they have flooded the system. There seem to be many fewer scam writers within the U.S. And I'll speculate further that this is because the authorities would catch on quickly, whereas there is little that can be done to someone scamming from a foreign country. Please, take me to task if you think this is nonsense.

Given my situation in the U.S., I know that I would be shut down immediately if I scammed the wrong client with the slightest inclination to take legal action.

It also seems much easier for my foreign clients to get the authorities breathing down my neck, whereas I do not have much recourse outside of the U.S. The level of risk associated with buying a model paper appears to be much reduced if a U.S. student sticks with a U.S. ghostwriter. Further, given the litigious nature of our great nation, it seems that the level of risk would also be lowest for many foreign-based students to contract with a U.S.-based writer or company.

I don't understand. You did your PhD in the U.K. and have published several academic articles in English? I know of at least a few companies that would hire you based on these credentials alone (outside of the U.K.), but I'm not so sure that I am allowed to mention them here. And if they are truly not interested, then I'd be happy to discuss this further.

It also may be a matter of how you sell yourself and the way you have formatted your CV. For example, nobody has checked my nationality (American). My CV is almost indistinguishable from an Indian colleague who went to the same schools. If I were ESL with your credentials, then I would strive to hide that detail as much as possible because, in the end, what matters is that you produce quality work.

I think the key for you here may be to realize that this shadow industry is based on partial truths. I have not seen where anybody is being expressly dishonest, but there is certainly a lot of playing one's cards close to the chest. As a fellow academic I am certain that you can relate to this behavior.

Also, from what I have read here, there have been some issues with ESL writers who will scam the companies and take their clients. This is a huge no-no. Unfortunately, it seems that the scammers are causing the legit companies to clamp down on who gets to work. You'll have to find a way to work around this problem.

Umm, yeah, that's just not true. Nobody is being maniacal here. It's about the risk associated with scammers. Unfortunately, there are more scammers from foreign countries. It is a very useful heuristic to just simply exclude foreign-based writer when most of them are scamming. Again, this is unfortunate for those ESL ghostwriters who are legitimately trying to gain a foothold in this illegitimate industry.

Also, I am competing with you. The academic ghostwriting community does not need to invent or create a straw man as you have here. Generalizing to the native English speakers and bashing them isn't going to help your cause.

It is absolutely clear, at least to me, that a lot of my clients would be better served by an ESL writer. And I'm just as sure that the opposite is often true. So maybe a better question would be: How is it that we pair the right clients with the right writers in a business that is simply about the bottom line?


I find it hilarious that you are being just a tad pedantic here.

Thanks for the response.

I'll keep sniffing.

I approach price from the point of view that everything is negotiable. Many of my clients have been very amenable to haggling.

A few companies have a bidding process that will let you experiment with pricing while competing with other writers for the same jobs.

Doing some steady work for various companies will give you a sense of what prices the market will tolerate. Some niche and higher-level academic work will command a premium, while some standard undergraduate topics can be had for rock bottom prices. Even as a freelancer, I still rely on companies for relatively more "steady" work, albeit at a lower price point.

I found it extremely useful to do a survey of company's websites and make a list what they charge and for what kinds of work.

Repeat customers nearly always get a break, although that can be hard to quantify because the level/quality of work can vary with the same client.

I do think of my prices in terms of time. This is absolutely necessary because, depending on where you live in the world, a lot of the academic ghostwriting work can very quickly become something that is not worth your time.

If this was my only source of income, then I might think about pricing in an entirely different way.

Counterpoint noted.

I guess that I should only speaking for myself on this point. I am in a situation where I cannot afford to fool around with scamming people. It seems that some folks can keep on scamming no matter what happens because they do not have much to lose.

That is not to say that I am a moral pillar in this shadow industry. The best I can offer is that I will not rip off a client, but even then you just have to take my word. Even if I had less scruples and less to lose, I don't think I have the stomach for continuously re-opening up shop elsewhere. I'd much rather try to build as much of a good reputation as I can.

I totally agree about the nightmare clients.

Well, your writing is a bit wordy and the argument doesn't make any sense. Its like you are showing off. I was trying to be kind, but writers2beware effectively did a better job than me by using two words to describe what I expressed with many. Your name calling is probably not going to get you much business here.

Because you have taken the time to respond.

If you are so different from the other ESL writers that pass through here, then why does your argument take the same vitriolic tone?

Step back, take a deep breath, and have some fun with us. There is nothing to get worked up about.


I think that you've drank too much of that Kool-Aid.

It's the slow season and many of us are off wasting time on discussion boards.

I'm genuinely curious and have no intention of attacking you: What are your qualifications other than the 608 papers (good job by the way)? Do you have any advanced degrees or writing in other venues? Do you offer some examples of writing in these applications? Are you an ESL writer (nothing inherently wrong with this, but it does scare people off)? I'm just trying to understand why someone who can produce as you do would be ignored. Maybe a better question to ask is why do you think that you are being ignored?

Thanks for sharing your story - that's awesome! Much appreciated. I'm pretty sure that post will get you some clients when the students start poking around in the Fall semester.

Have you ever considered setting up your own website and going into business for yourself?

Yeah, I think its just a matter of time before the wordsmiths of prey descend upon this thread and rip us to shreds. I think it would be fascinating if more people posted a little on how they wandered into this shadowy world. It could disarm some of the snipers and maybe sooth some of the savage ESL debating beasts.

The short of the long for me: I'm a PhD attempting to transition out of academe. I realized much too late that life as a professor was not going to work out for me. Thus the goal now is to monetize my skills, some of which are esoteric and highly specialized. What I have found through trying various kinds of freelance work is that I enjoy academic ghostwriting the most - I think that it gives me what I had naively imagined was stored in the ivory tower. I love, love, love delving into an interesting topic for which I had no time in the past. So I am here on this discussion board specifically to 1) learn more about the academic ghostwriting business and 2) possibly drum up some business for myself.

I'm currently doing contract work for several writing, editing, and publishing companies with an eye toward cutting out the middle man and developing my own company. I have no problem with companies and don't want to reignite the debate on here about whether to go with a freelancer or service company; both have their inherent pros and cons as discussed ad infinitum on this board.

I would also like to network a bit. I've hit all of my goals so far within in this industry. For example, I had set a couple monetary goals for a few given months and either hit or well exceeded them. I've also learned how to fill in the income gaps during the off season. So I think that I am primed to find a bit more success here. However, I have come to realize that I have been doing this all alone. I can see this will be a problem if my plans are fully realized: there will be a lot of jobs that I cannot handle and will need to either pass them along or partner up with somebody. I could definitely subcontract some work, but not everything. I just think it would be better to have access to a network of highly skilled writers to not only share work, expertise, and refer customers, but also to bounce ideas.

Right now, I can only serve a quasi-referral directed to other ghostwriters who I only know by pseudonym and through company controlled channels. In all cases I have no idea if the client found what was sought. So at least in some cases, there is not much of an incentive for me to do a referral. Yes, I am shamelessly digging for kickbacks here.

This is an industry of shadowy shadows, which at times is both exciting and frustrating.

Your trepidation about reaching out is definitely warranted. I get the impression that we are simply tolerated here on this board. We should probably behave as such and definitely follow the rules. I don't know who runs this site, but I greatly appreciate what they have provided and, as such, do not want to bite a hand that may ultimately feed me. I do suspect that our activity here generates interest from potential clients toward the site owner(s).

I think that you just have to be very careful with your phrasing. You just keep the communication and discussion within the rules and use a bit of professional courtesy.

I have lurked about here, off and on, prior to creating my account. It seems that you can get into the most trouble from directly discussing certain details about how the companies work (DND list). This make sense because you don't want to pull work away from companies. My general opinion is that freelancers and companies are in a sort of symbiotic relationship, where the companies are obviously the host. Piss them off a bit too much and you quickly become a pest. I'm not a big fan of pesticides.

We are allowed to disclose personal information as per the terms of service. We just can't do any "blatant" advertising or soliciting.

I think we should bring the discussion back to the original question: Are native english speakers really better at writing?

The question is simple, but the answer is complex. For example, most of my native English speaking academic peers (PhD scientists at the top research institutions) are horrible at writing. One of my dear friends is the daughter of two professors and hails from Oxford University. She has the greatest trouble getting published despite being an excellent scientist. Her writing just sucks - I know because I am her personal editor. Then there is a colleague from Switzerland who speaks several languages fluently with over 100 published works in all sorts of venues. I feel like a moron whenever he glances in my general direction. Technically, his English is much better than mine will ever become, however, his writing reads in a very mechanical way. Consequently, he often asks us native English speakers to adjust his writing for things as simple as newsletters. I'm not a cunning linguist, but I think that this is very suggestive on how much influence culture can have on how we construct our sentences.

I also work as a contract editor where my job is to take ESL manuscripts and make them sound like they are written by someone from either the U.S. or the U.K. This, combined with my professional experience has given me the ability to spot the ESL writer almost immediately.

Although a good bit of this industry handles graduate level work, we're mostly talking about undergrad papers in this forum. Speaking as a lecturer who has received essays from students who obviously had no hand in the writing, an ESL writer would have likely served them better in terms of economics and by throwing me off their trail. Even though I cannot prove that many students are cheating, I will **** with them in variety of ways that satifies my level of sadism. Its much more effective, and easier on me, to make life difficult for a cheating student than it is to run them up in front of the dean. I truly believe that a good life is to understand that you never know when you are messing with the wrong person.

If you are a Chinese student who hands in a paper that sounds like it was written by a white guy from the New England, then your professor will likely be zeroing in on your little scam. You won't get caught, but you also won't get the benefit of having your grade lifted out of the failing zone - this is something that nearly all lecturers/professors do for lots of reasons that I do not want to get into. And, if you get a professor like me (there are a lot of us), we will ride you like a workhorse because our intellect was insulted by your blatant display.

Likewise, if you are Johnny Whitebread from suburban Sameness, U.S.A., then you probably do not want an ESL writer. The influence from MTV reality shows and the extreme desire to be famous simply will not come through. However, another twisty caveat is that most professors do not really read your essay. We skim through looking for gradable points and obvious errors. We do not have time to digest yet another ten page paper about global warming, hot and sweaty polar bears, and how Al Gore could have saved the world if he wasn't a fat slob. And we all sit around the table at the local pub and lament the fact that we do this. So yeah, an ESL writer might suffice here, but then again, maybe not.

Then we get to the upper level classes at a teaching school. You know, the one's where the professors are there to mostly teach. They will likely read your paper and will likely flip a ******* lid if they see you using the word 'whilst' instead of 'while' or 'amongst' versus 'among'. Catching this will just irritate them even more such that they will go back and re-read your crappy paper. Yep, they have that much time and they love having that little bit of insignificant power. It makes them gnash their teeth and pound their chests. Some of the ESL writers on this board are so verbose and use so many 25 cent words - nearly zero students in the U.S., even at the Ivy Leagues, speak or write this way. I'm looking at you Antarch!

Or maybe you are that student who was just a jerk the whole semester. I will zero in on your paper because I know for a fact that you are going to pull a fast one. I will **** you so hard with my red pen that it will really look like your a-hole was bleeding all over the paper. And your poor class mates. ****, man. Because I reamed your ream so hard, I now must grade your classmates with greater scrutiny so I don't get in trouble for singling you out. I know that you'll cry foul, and you'll be right, but can't prove it just as I can't prove that you hired some ESL writer from wherever. And it will all be worth it because those students who are the biggest jerks are the same who usually suck up most of my time. Payback *******!

That felt good to finally get off my chest.

So yeah, lots of caveats and pitfalls. The ESL versus native English writer debate, as it stands here, really falls short. As Meokahn suggests, there's a whole lot of gray territory. The original question of who is better is actually one-dimensional and doesn't address the reality. As far as I can tell, there seems to be room for everybody to have a slice of the pie.

There is another aspect that few of the ESL'ers here seem to get. Most of the ESL ghostwriters are scammers. Period. End of discussion. Don't fight it. I'm truly sorry, but this is your burden to overcome. Getting all worked up about this fact will not serve you in the long run. You absolutely must set yourself apart from the others because, like it or not, American's are an insular bunch and generally don't really see the difference between a Nigerian and a Kenyan. I know it is a sad indictment of my people, but this is the reality. You are not doing yourself any favors by trying to elevate the general population ESL writers.

I await the insults, slander, name calling, and general twisting of my words.

Thanks, I think. Yeah, at least part of it is self-promotion, otherwise I wouldn't write anything at all. All of what I said can be argued one way or the other. I just needed to blow off some steam and threaten people with my red pen.

I forgot to mention the size of my red pen. It is quite large.

A big Nope. You're still being pedantic and very un-fun. You should read the terms of service:

12. Due to a very competitive and humorous nature of the essay business environment and based upon the ideas of Freedom of Speech forum members may expect personal attacks or accusations from other posters. In order to avoid personal attacks, baseless accusations, or misinformation, or in order to avoid being ridiculed or name-called by other posters, one should not become an EssayScam forum member and/or one should not post any message on the forum.

"Exclusively" relying on anything is a bad idea.

Bump. This is my favorite thread, hands down.

I'm sorry to hear that you got screwed. That's why it is generally a good idea to avoid most ESL outfits and individuals.

Every site is different. If you post the exact domain name, I can provide the non-private Whois information. But note that a Whois search does NOT show the underlying, "private" registration information.

I'll also add that WHOIS won't help in a lot of cases. Most of the top search results for "essay paper writing services" in google show privacy-protected registrants. My own website is privacy protected because I still work in academics. As much as I hate talking on the phone, I suggest calling if there is a number. If you hear even the slightest nonnative accent, then you'll know the deal. If your still scared stiff, then you can request some freelancers to call you from a blocked number. We can't hand out our number or we would spending our entire days dealing with non-paying callers.

Also, I have checked and there are verifiably good writers to be found on EssayDirectory with website that show unprotected registrant information.

You also highlight another good point: You must dig a little if you want any sort of quality.

Effing wow, man! You are not a reader. There's just no comprehension skills coming through. I've been following you here and I am amazed at how well you can mimic. Your writing has changed over a few short days. It's subtle to be sure, but you've absorbed a bit here and there from the others on this thread and quickly metamorphosed your writing style. That is amazing.

What is not so amazing is that while you obviously understand the basic meanings of these words, including the slang and jargon, you assemble them into grammatically correct sentences that don't make any effing sense. Your brain has hit a wall. I guess to some you might look really smart, but I don't think any of the writers here can be fooled that easily. I've seen your kind in the past, most of them academics that looked fantastic on paper - all words and no substance. Some of these dudes had encyclopedic knowledge about some crazy crap. I'm talking Ken Jennings-level. But after you spent some time listening, then it would be become increasingly apparent that these guys just knew a lot of facts and could only string them together as other people had done before. Their memory is incredible whereas most people's are crap such that it was difficult to sort out that they were verbally plagiarizing other people. Again, I'm looking at you Antarch! I saw one of these guys try to write a master's thesis. While he did it in short order and it was technically correct, there wasn't any evidence that he had actually committed one of his own thoughts to paper. There was no comprehension or the ability extrapolate to new situations.

Being able to apply previous experiences and accumulated bits of knowledge toward novel solutions is the hallmark of a smart fecker. You, Antarch, are not one of these feckers. I'm not even sure if I am one of these feckers. And that would suck fecken donkey balls if I ever find out.

Antarch, every single one of your sentences can be picked apart and shredded into their nonsensical component parts. But to do so would be incredibly tiring. You're too just too weird, man.

Ditto. Again, I have no quarrel with ESL/ENL writers who are legit.


No anger, but maybe a bit of anguish. Antarch reminded me of some of the frustrating moments I've had in the past. So I guess maybe I was projecting a bit.

But then I was reminded about how the academic system basically sets us all up to plagiarize. As students, we spend most of our time memorizing and regurgitating. Its maddening and did cause me a lot of anguish. Those who are really good at this end up going forward thinking a little too highly of themselves.

Yes, Meokhan, you are correct and have hit the hot nail in my hot head. That aspect of my personality has certainly done a disservice to my career at times. However, it has helped in other ways, particularly with respect to my sense of humor and fending off those who would tread on me. Part of me believes that this bit of edginess contributes to my own unique voice. That part of me might also be a bit delusional, which is a problem because I have great difficulty reasoning with my delusional self.

Don't get drawn in, lovecraft. Reading in other threads you'll see that Major tends to poke people in the eye. Even so, he does seem to add good input on occasion. I think right now he is in a mood to be obtuse.

Yep, Major has a major hard-on for messing with freelancers.

And I'll just go ahead and say it:
The Terms of Service for any academic ghostwriting service do not hold any legal weight whatsoever. The terms do not protect the clients or the writers in any way. It's like saying the HR department at my university is looking out for me and the students. All BS. The Terms are just rules, which are regularly broken and adjusted to suit the needs of the person/entity who made them up. Which is to say that the Terms are completely ad hoc. They can be interpreted and re-interpreted in any way that you like. This is especially so if the law gets involved. I'll even speculate that not many academic ghostwriters or academic clients, if any, have gone to the extent hiring a lawyer. As such, there is no significant difference between a service company and a freelancer on the basis of Terms of Service alone. None. And I won't entertain another word from Major unless he ponies up a really good insult with some choice words.

You could start by self-editing your first sentence.

Yeah, that's a tough spot. I do think you are now taking the right approach by not putting anymore details out into the universe. If you don't have a lawyer on the case, then best to keep mum for a bit. If anybody is serious about helping you, then demand a phone conversation.

Think about it for a while and when you feel that you are in the clear, take that b-tard down. I definitely want to know his name.

I would also take steps to protect my identity from being stolen. Definitely monitor your credit score/reports - there are ways to do this without paying money. Its easy to have your identity stolen if you irritated the wrong person.

Then it is probably a good idea to go to a company-owned forum and complain about these oppressive companies. Good strategy, especially if you are an ESL-writer.

Given your mastery of subtlety, this level of negativity is necessary. Maybe you and Antarch should band together and beat up on Writers2Beware? I can't wait to see his/her response.

You have to do it the same way as everybody else here. Participate in the discussions, attack the scammers, advise the students, and have a good poke at Antarch. Another hint: This is a web-based enterprise. Re-invest your profits toward your goals. Use the skills that you should have as a writer, which is another way of saying "Do your research". There is a fountain of useful information here.


Sorry Antarch, I can't do that. It's just not in me to let you slide until you come clean and stop using those 25 cent words. Alas, that is the holy grail of this business... What does that even mean? To paraphrase a quote from a favorite film: I don't think that means what you think it means.

You got it partly right. I am a maniac with lots of maniac friends. You should join us.

Karisdata, ESL writers like you are the problem here. This thread was going along just fine without anybody bashing the ESL scammers from Africa. Then you pop up and mention something about a small mishap and blaming an entire continent. It clearly shows that your level of reading comprehension and ability to stay on topic are pretty close to that of a goat.

On second thought, we can use your case to illustrate the second of two problems that I see coming from ESLers. The first things that a client needs to avoid are the obvious scammers. The second problem, which you underscore so perfectly here, is to avoid the ESL writers who may initially sound as if they can write very well, but in reality lack the depth and critical thinking skills needed to satisfy many client needs.

By the way, when a client gets scammed and/or underserved, it is no small mishap by any measure.

Thanks Major! That's perfect! Next? Who wants to counter with a "real" story. Name calling and vomit spewing is okay, just try to pepper in some facts.

This is not true. There are a couple of companies that pay me more on the basis of my qualifications and demonstrated quality of work.

Where are you from AG14 and what are your qualifications?

Thanks for the input. Given what I've seen here, you may just be perfectly right. You guys have been doing this a lot longer than me.

Even so, I'm hoping that at least one will bite. For example, that MeoKhan (from Pakistan) guy seems to be fairly legit. I haven't read all of his posts, but what I have seen seems to be tempered with reason and understanding. And then there is that other guy, Antarch from Nigeria, who has thrown some really weird stuff my way. I'd really like to know his story.

So, if you are an ESL writer from Nigeria who is taking on clients from native English speaking countries, then I wonder how many you need to do to make a comfortable living. If you live in Lagos, then the same cost of living is a bit more than what it is for me in Detroit. In Abuja, it a bit less. But this all hides the fact that about one half of the Nigerians live is relatively extreme poverty. So if you are used to living on less than a few dollars per day, then a couple of good clients per month could go a long way. Or maybe your doing a bunch of papers per month for less than 10 USD per page. At any rate, Wikipedia says that life expectancy is around 52 years, so you don't have the same retirement concerns as me, if at all. I don't know. Enlighten us.

And then what about Pakistan? I've never been there, but it seems completely different in every way from Nigeria. It also seems like a place of extremes from the super expensive Karachi to folks living simply in remote mountain villages. I've got a sense of some of the extreme differences between the haves and have nots from living in Detroit, but I don't think I have the slightest clue what it is like in Nigeria and Pakistan. And English is listed an official language in Pakistan - I was surprised to learn this.

Maybe there aren't many of us that do the calculations, but I have it figured to how much I have to make per hour, day, week, month, and year in order to make this profitable and worth my time. Since I am a fat American who consumes and wastes more than anyone else on the planet, I am guessing that my expenses are a lot more than a typical ESLer.

I guess that I am looking for a demographics lesson here.