Freelance writing rates (individual work vs. company work)

Starting a new discussion on:


That's a wishful thinking. Freelance writers working on their own may on average expect up to $15-$20 per page. You don't imagine clients to hire you for more than that, do you. If you do, what are the main reasons? If I was a student, I would not pay a freelance writer who advertises his/her disposable email address more than $15-$20 per page because:

- Same writers work for essay services, doing exactly the same job, for $10-$15 per page. Just because they use their own private email doesn't mean a student would have to pay 100% more to render their service. If they have their own, professional website, they might be able to work for more, but not if they just use an anonymous email account.

- There is no protection using an individual freelance writer. If you get sick, who is going to complete the job? Even if you deliver part of the job, a new writer would most likely have to start from scratch (and the cost would double). If a student works with a company, their order is reassigned once the original writer fails (and there's no need to pay extra for that).

I have no argument with you, Major, and I don't know what company (if any) you represent; but I'd like to answer your questions and provide the perspective of those of us writers whose situation is just not accurately described by what may or may not be true "on average":


That might be true "on average" but not for good, experienced, American and British freelance writers. I haven't written a single page for a penny less than $30 in at least 2 years and I believe Pheelyks hasn't written a page for less than $35 or $40. The other 2 good experienced writers I know charge the same. All of us also work for some of the same essay companies and that's one reason we've gradually shifted quite heavily to freelance work.


The main reason is that many customers prefer the certainty of knowing that their work will always have the consistency of being written by the same person and at the same level instead of by whichever company writer chooses to take their order. They can (and do) ask for us by name at many companies, but if we decline it (and we often do), any other writer (of hundreds of writers with varying skill and experience levels) can take the order unless they specify that they prefer a refund if we're not available. If any freelance clients of mine ever need work outside all of our areas, I have referred them to companies that I know are legit and I've helped them phrase the description for company orders that help them get what they need.


From the customers' point of view, they probably don't care if they pay $30/pg (or more) to a company that only pays about half of that to the actual writer or the same $30/pg all to the person who's actually writing the paper. Whether it's a company or a freelance writer, customers are often (understandably) very apprehensive placing that first order, but once they get a good product from a freelancer, they might actually feel safer knowing that it's always going to be the same person writing every order. As many customer testimonials here illustrate, it's quite possible to get a good essay from a totally legitimate company one time and a much worse essay from the same company subsequently, simply because it was written by a different writer.


I can't speak for any other writer outside of the small circle of 3 or 4 good, very experienced, honest American/British writers I know, but if one of us has an occasional emergency, we do the responsible thing by contacting one another for help. We also happen to be the top writers (of hundreds) at the essay companies that use all of us, so when it's a freelance-work emergency, at least (in our case) our emergency will be handled by an equally good writer. If the same thing happens with a company writer, the order either goes right back to the pool of hundreds of writers or the company contacts its best writers asking for help with it. As it happens, we're the same 4 writers (out of about 5 or 6) who our companies will approach first, asking whether we can complete an emergency and they'll offer us a bonus for doing it; but even with the bonus, it's still less than we (now) make from our freelance work.

Finally, no company I know ever "assigns" or "reassigns" an order like that to another writer to complete it because we have no obligation to take any order we don't choose. The most they can do is ask one of their best writer to help and then, if we all decline, they just repost the order for all writers to consider, and usually with a bonus to make it more attractive, hoping someone will take it. So, when it comes to emergency situations, the customer is usually in the exact same position whether it's a company or a freelancer, and in many cases, it actually involves some of the same writers in both cases.

This is true, but these rates are charged by ESL writers, in most cases, or by those who have only recently entered the market. Legitimate and experienced US/UK writers (at least those that I know) - like FW pointed out, charge much more, and their rates are usually same/similar to those of major US/UK companies.

So it means you haven't written for a writing company for the last 2 years? I don't know companies that would pay $35-$40 per page to their contracted writers.


Legitimate customers (ie. the ones that use the service in a legal and appropriate way) don't necessarily prefer the same person. They should use the paper as a model to start their own research and writing.


That's the bottom line. Working with a freelance writer doesn't bring any extra benefits to students (OTHER THAN a lower price). But now that you and Pheelyks seemingly charge THE SAME rates as legitimate companies do - what is the point for students to work with you rather than with legitimate essay services? Out of the hundreds of company writers there are at least 100 of equal quality.


It's up to them, but I'd personally prefer to have a choice. It's like renting a car - working with a single freelance writer is like using your friend's car; everything may work fine until the car breaks down. When it breaks down - what are your choices? You may call your friend for help and spend a lot of time and money to get it fixed. When you rent from a company, you get it replaced or repaired same day (or within a few hours). No extra charges and piece of mind. Why would a student want to pay the same for less?


Right, a company has much more resources to deal with a crisis. You assume that during emergency you can still communicate; but what if you end up in a hospital? Nobody will contact the client in your name like a company would.


Not accurate. If a freelance writer like you have an emergency (ie. cannot get online), the client is left with no assistance. If the same freelance writer working with a company has an emergency, the company takes care of the problem (ie. looks for a new and equally good writer and reassigns the order). See my analogy about renting a car.


They may try to charge more - but customers get less for their money. Again, would you prefer to order custom software for the same price from Google Inc. (ie. Google Corporation would be directly responsible for producing and delivering the software) or from a freelance programmer sporadically working for Google Inc?

I must say that the points made by Major are very substantial; similarly, the counterargument by FLW is also noteworthy.

I thought I should just share my personal standing as an ESL writer in the industry. I rarely work for less than 15USD per page (275 words). However, I did accept as low as 3-4USD back in the mid 2000s.

Now, what about the highest compensation? I find it quite logical to argue that perhaps it's very difficult to understand how the global audience/customer acts and reacts to what they're looking for over the WWW, and how much they're willing to spend.

The highest compensation I have ever received was 34USD per page for a PhD thesis of around 250 pages. Occasionally, I find customers that are willing to pay (given they're quite assured of the quality of the work delivered) as much as 25USD to ME not to a native speaker. Just a few days ago I did a critical literature review for an Australian citizen who paid me (very willingly - though I thought I would start from the higher end to settle somewhere around 20) 25AusD per page.

Let me quite honestly say that I sometimes wonder about all the dynamics of the cyber marketplace. Otherwise, ESL writers like me will find LITTLE room to survive given (i) the market sees the bloodiest competition today that's growing by the minutes, and (ii) many more freelance writers trying their luck (in the presence of already established, well-qualified native English writers).

Just briefly to respond to Major:

I meant that I hadn't worked for less than $30/pg in 2 years as a freelancer; the point I was responding to was your statement that the $35/pg mentioned by Pheelyks was "wishful thinking." I wasn't referring to company orders at all. The vast majority of company orders that I take pay out $20/pg, although I have drastically reduced my company work in the last 2 years, precisely because the going rate that my fellow experienced American writers and I typically get from all of our freelance clients is now almost twice the highest per-page payout rate of company orders. This month, for example, I have completed exactly 15 company orders of which exactly 15 paid out $20/pg.

I stand by my statement that the customer is in no better position if I get hit by a bus if I owe him a company order than he is if I owe him a freelance order. I do have emergency procedures for my wife to contact my trusted colleagues with my full schedule of pending projects. If I get hit by a bus today and miss a company order, I also have a similar emergency procedure to contact the company to let them know, but I don't know how many other writers do that. If they don't, the first the company would hear about a missed deadline would be from the customer. They would then just email the writer asking for an update because they don't know where we are or what happened to us, either. If the company got no response, they'd eventually end up asking the customer whether he prefers a refund or to allow more time to find another writer. And at least at the companies that use my 3 colleagues and me, that means we'd probably be the first writers to get an emergency request to help out with the order. So, that customer is in no better position either way, at least in my case.


I don't know what (if any) companies you represent because you haven't said, but that is absolutely not the case at any of the companies that use Pheelyks and me, unless they lied to me just for my ego. The last time they privately offered me a very difficult project that I declined, I suggested that if neither Pheelyks nor the other 2 writers to whom I've been referring in this thread (and 1 other writer I don't know except as a very-frequently-requested writer) wanted it, they should probably just repost it for their other writers. Their verbatim response to me was "If you guys don't want it, we want no part of that order." So, at least with respect to us, there is a perfectly good reason that a customer might prefer to pay us directly the same price they'd otherwise pay a company to post an order that might get taken by a few hundred other writers, some of whom might have just started doing this for a living (and only part time as an experiment or while in between "real" jobs) literally yesterday.

So a smart buyer (who would also pay $30-40 for the order from a company) would go directly to a legitimate company and have all the protection a company offers. I see no reason for a smart buyer to order directly from a freelance writer, have less protection and flexibility, and pay about the same. The only reason for a smart buyer would be to go directly to a freelance writer and pay less (ie. $15-$20).


That's interesting.. so you have all the procedures that work perfectly in theory, but we know the reality is always different. Once the situation is under control (it could take days), your wife may contact your "trusted colleagues" and they - if they are busy or if they don't want risk not getting paid - can do absolutely nothing and take no responsibility for that. I don't imagine your wife contacting your "trusted colleagues" and tell them: "Look, my husband is in a hospital. Here are the materials for a 150-page dissertation. Please complete it within a week. We'll worry about payment later."


Legitimate companies have more than a couple of excellent writers.. Maybe not 100, but 20 at least.

Actually, I had a health scare about a month ago and thought I might need surgery on short notice. I immediately prepared a very detailed list of all my pending projects on a calendar for my wife, with client emails (that are searchable for all previous communications and materials) and I contacted a colleague to give him a heads up about it. In fact, I did all that before I took care of my personal needs and affairs because I know my clients trust me. More importantly, as I've said, the situation is exactly the same for company writers, except that company writers may have less of an incentive to worry as much about it because it's the company reputation at stake if deadlines are missed and clients have no idea what's going on, rather than their personal professional reputation at stake. People get ill suddenly, get hit by busses, and drop dead all the time, and that doesn't change anything when working for a company means working for them as remote, self-employed, freelance contractors as we do, as opposed to working in a traditional office where you clock in daily and your employers knows if you're out sick...or dead.

You seem to have very strong opinions about this. Do you mind if I ask whether you are employed by or are otherwise affiliated with any essay company?

When it comes to professional reputation, a freelance writer with a disposable email or name has much less to lose than a company. If something gets out of control, switching to a new "professional email" is quite easy. (of course, you'll reply that you've been using the same anonymous email for X years, but that doesn't change the fact that it is very easy for an anonymous freelance writer to change their identity quickly).

And it's not exactly the same situation. The company manages the payments and some of them have even access to the correspondence between the writer and the client. They can reassign an order within minutes if needed. In order for your wife to do anything about payments, she either has to wait for you to approve the decision or do nothing.


I know how companies and freelance writers work. MeoKhan's reply in this thread is an honest one.

Actually, the company would be in a worse situation. My wife would be the first person to know if I have a medical emergency and she could start contacting everybody who needed to be contacted immediately. The company would have no way of knowing that something happened to a writer unless he made the effort to let them know or until a client started complaining about a missed deadline. The company communication system isn't even part of the equation because neither the company nor the client would ever know anything unless the writer sent a message about it and he could could just as easily click "contact company" as he could click "contact customer" to notify them of a problem on the internal messaging system.


MeoKhan hasn't really contradicted anything I've said. Are you implying that I've said something "dishonest" or just that I'm biased because I do more freelance work than company work? Because if the issue is the potential objectivity or bias of all of us, both MeoKhan and I have always disclosed, in our profiles (and above every post), that we're writers. You've chosen not to disclose whether you are a Writer, Customer, or Company Rep; and it seems that you don't want to answer that question directly. Do you really think that's an unfair question given, as you seem to be implying, that we all probably have our own bases for possibly being biased in our respective views on this issue? Your input here seems to suggest (at least to me) that you have just as much of a reason to be biased as I do, only from the point of view of essay companies. Do you think that's an unfair conclusion on my part?

Ok. So (assuming your wife cares about your orders more than about your well-being) your wife sends a quick message to your clients, for example:

'My husband is in a hospital. He will contact you as soon as he can, if ever.'

Now, what is the client supposed to do? He/she would probably reply:

'I'm sorry to hear that. But I paid $800 for my project and it is due in a couple of days. What am I supposed to do?'

Now what...?

If the client ordered from a reputable company, the conversation could be as follows:

'I contacted JohnWriter a couple of days ago and haven't received a reply. My project is due in a couple of days. What should I do?'

Now the company contacts the writer. If there's no reply by email, they try to call him. If no success, they wait for some more time and reassign the project. The order is completed on time (or with a small delay).

OR

'My deadline was today and I haven't received my order yet. What's going on?'

Now the company contacts the writer; if no response, the order is reassigned (per the client's permission) or client is refunded.


What I'm implying is that you identify with writers who have nothing more to say than to belittle other writers, companies, or clients.


What makes you think so?

The argument developed by FLW above.

I believe you know that's far from the truth, because I was very nearly kicked off this forum a year and a half ago and the main reason given was that the administrators believed that I'd been too supportive of the essay companies that I'd defended many times against what I knew to be totally false allegations. In fact, their email to me said that they thought that was the only reason I was here. The terms of my continued membership here were that I stop discussing any of those companies by name and I have never violated that or even contributed to any discussion about any of them since. I have also said many times that I know absolutely nothing about any other companies and I have never said anything negative about any company.

I believe you also know that I have a very amicable relationship here with about a half a dozen other writers (including MeoKhan) and that I have routinely defended other writers, including two of my strongest and most direct competitors, from false allegations, even though it would obviously have been more in my personal interest to stay completely silent and let them fight their own battles, including in a thread whose title stated that I was a better writer and more trutworthy than one of those writers.

It's really none of my business or concern whether you work for an essay company or not, but you seem to be flat out refusing to answer that question while simultaneously accusing me of being biased against essay companies. Furthermore, I have been addressing your points extremely politely and without any sarcasm, whereas some of your responses to mine seem to be dripping with sarcasm and are bordering on outright disrespect and ridicule. Since you've raised the issue of bias, I believe you should just answer the question about whether or not you work for or are affiliated with any essay company so that everybody reading these arguments can decide for himself who is biased toward or identifies with essay companies or freelancers. If you do work for an essay company, it's not exactly fair to refuse to admit that while accusing me of being biased in this discussion, is it?

I don't believe the administrators would email you just like that, without any specific reason.


The question is pointless. If you cannot disapprove my arguments about freelance writers vs. companies, it won't add anything to the discussion. The reader is interested in rational thought, not in demagogy.

Admin? May I please have permission to post the contents of that email from you if I redact the name of the person and Screen Name of the forum member you told me owned the essay company at issue?

I haven't accused anybody of anything. You intimated that I'm less than honest because I am biased (or identify with) freelancers. I simply responded that I've always admitted that I'm (mainly) a freelance writer and I suggested that, since you brought up the topic of bias, it would be more fair if you simply told us whether or not you have any interest in any essay company.

You identify with freelancers who violated the forum rules and had been kicked off this forum. You've been complaining about almost being kicked off the forum for over a year now. But you are still an active member because you have a financial benefit in being a member of this forum.

I have never once complained about it and have only expressed my gratitude for having been allowed to maintain my membership in good standing and I have never violated any rule or my agreement with the admin ever since then. I mentioned it only as a very direct response to your comment that I "belittled" essay companies. Not only didn't I ever "belittle" any company, but I was almost booted for defending one too aggressively; that was the context, not any kind of complaint, whatsoever. If Admin will allow it, I will immediately post their email explaining why I was almost booted after redacting all real names, other forum names, and any essay company mentioned in that email.

Who wrote that you "belittle" other writers / clients / companies? Not me. I wrote: "you identify with writers who..."

Considering I haven't worked for $20/page in over a year, yes, Major, I do imagine clients will hire me for more than that. The absolute minimum I currently charge is $40/page, and I definitely lose some customers over it. The ones I keep can afford the quality I provide, plain and simple. But thanks for letting me know how stupid I am for understanding how markets work and using it to my advantage....


Nope. Just because you underpay your writers doesn't mean all good writers are willing to settle for subsistence wages.

There is no more protection using a company than there is using a freelancer. We've been over this in another thread.


Meaning, YOUR company won't pay writers this much, or you've actually discussed the issue with other company owners recently?

Really...you guys changes the "about us" to acknowledge that this site is owned by a for-profit essay providing service. Can't you just come clean and acknowledge that you are a part of that company?

After tough negotiations you might be able to get $20-25 :) But definitely no more than $35-40 as you suggest.

Here is a typical pricing structure (as paid by customers) of the companies you allegedly worked for:

$18.00 per page due in 15+ days
$19.00 per page due in 7-14 days
$22.00 per page due in 5-6 days
$26.00 per page due in 3-4 days
$30.00 per page due in 2 days
$35.00 per page due in 1 days
$39.00 per page due in 8-24 hours

So you claim you get $35-$40 per page working for these companies?


From my understanding, you have been banned for trolling and TOS abuse in the past. Still, you came back under a new username because you realized without the free advertising this forum may give you your services mean absolutely nothing in the marketplace and your hope for a new $40-per-page client is close to zero on sites like Elance or Odesk.

I don't "negotiate" price at all, much less go through any "tough" negotiations. I haven't written a single page for less than $30 in a long time (except for essay-company orders), and very routinely get $35-$40/pg on freelance projects that are even slightly difficult or slightly rushed. I tell prospective clients that I don't "negotiate" price at all; I quote my price for a given project and delivery date and they either accept my price or they're perfectly free to just try me again some other time in the future if they're not satisfied with work they find cheaper...which happens to be exactly the way I phrase it in emails.

Generally, most of the prospective clients who decline my price are those who were looking for something in the range of $15/pg anyway, so I don't consider it a loss when they go elsewhere; and most of the rest eventually do come back to order from me after trying out cheaper writers or essay companies...and once they do use me the first time, they tend to use me many more times after that...and at my price without any "negotiations" whatsoever.

Furthermore, professional clients often pay me almost twice what you don't seem to believe students pay, and typically, that means about $75 or $80 for about 400 words of copy. I don't know what any other writers get from their professional clients, but I know at least 3 other (academic) writers who all charge $30-$40/pg as their base price for most of their academic work. Rather than being the exception, that actually seems to have become the standard base rate for very experienced, very good American writers, at least the ones I know.

Major, I take one or two assignments a month at this point max. I've moved into another far more lucrative niche that has nothing to do with academic writing. Your veiled threat at banning me again for hinting at "exposing" you is simply more evidence of your paranoia and your desperation.

How is it trolling to suggest you come clean about your identity and associations? People tell other people to do that almost daily on this site, often with far more vitriolic and nonsensical language. The only reason you don't like it now is because it might "hurt" your "business" (of which there is certainly very little to begin with these days).

By the way, what TOS did I ever violate? We never did clear that up.

In sum: if I get banned now, it will only serve as evidence that you are, indeed, in cahoots with the operators of this site. Lord knows I've insulted others more frequently and with greater fervor without being banned.

Ok, so one of you is lying. Your colleague wrote that my statement about writers working for essay services for $10-$15 per page is false and that legitimate companies may pay him up to $35-$40 per page. What's your experience on that? How much on average have you been paid working for a writing service; was it $35-40 per page too?

I'm sure administrator has better things to do on Thanksgiving Day than banning previous trolls.

I don't think either of us is lying about anything; I believe he was referring to his freelance rates and not claiming that any essay companies pay him $35-$40/pg. Earlier, when I thought it was obvious from the context of the conversation that I was only referring to freelance rates, you responded as though I'd claimed some company paid out at that rate and I had to clarify in a subsequent post that I hadn't meant that.

Since you asked me 2 direct questions, I'll answer them both directly:


My experience is that most of the essay companies I've been writing for since 2003 haven't raised their payout rates in a decade. I was lucky that they started me off at their highest rate because of my law degree and writing samples, but the top regular rate from them is $20/pg. Most of their projects pay out in the range of about half of that or a quarter of that amount. They add bonuses to some particularly difficult orders bringing the payout on them to $25/pg or $30/pg but not that often.


On average, most of the companies I've been writing for pay $20/pg for the work that I take because I don't take many orders that pay out less than that. There are very few orders that are worth taking at half the minimum per-page rate I charge for freelance work. If I wanted a lot of $20/pg work, I'd just "negotiate" more with freelance clients asking to pay that, but I don't even bother. That's what I was charging for freelance work 10 years ago, but my freelance prices have gradually risen to what my market has borne, and rather easily.

Now that I've answered both of your questions very directly, may I ask you for the same courtesy? Are you a rep or employee of or affiliated in any way with any essay company? If so, what company is it and what's your position or affiliation?


That's probably equally true of many essay-company administrators, too. So you may have hit on another possible advantage to using (some) freelance writers: namely, some of us (like me) totally ignore all holidays and related social rituals and work right through the times of year when it can be very tough to find someone willing to work. I'm booked pretty solid with deadlines in the next few days, including a few I'll be writing later today/tonight.

Correction:


I meant to say "about half or three-quarters of that amount" not "a quarter." But that's only for writers getting the top rate; less experienced writers don't make as much.

This is simply not true. I know at least three other American writers. Plus yours truly. All of us charge private clients more than that. When you are your own sales, customer service, writing and, perhaps, collections department, you have to or it's not worth it. Everybody I know stays booked solid and works ridiculous, wretched hours trying to get it all done. I know based on some specific interactions with freelancewriter that what he says about his rates and overall business is true.

In the company/individual writer debate I can see both sides. Yes, it is easy to get scammed by anonymous individuals posing as writers. It is also easy to get taken by rock-bottom companies, and the average student doesn't have a reliable way to know which are good and which aren't. If people want to go to companies, good for them. I couldn't write all of the papers in the world anyway, so it's no threat to me. People who take private clients deal with a lot of repeat customers and word of mouth, so for most of us, the discussion is largely academic. Pun intended. HA! (I need some sleep.)

"Most" - meaning one or two?


Let me guess - the writers you know are the "top 3 essay industry writers" who will beat the established companies within 2 years, right.


You've just proved my point. We can assume you (like most of other freelance writers, including the "top 3 industry writers") are professional writers. But at the same time, you are amateurish sales people, customer service people, accountants, and web designers. And your availability is limited (I guess you need to sleep and do other things unrelated to your job, too). Now it doesn't stop some of you from wanting to charge the same rates professional essay companies do - despite the fact you struggle to do all these things on your own.

If the "established companies" feel threatened by three writers who have no interest in "beating" them in the first place, then they're boxing with shadows. Especially if those few writers are, in your view, sorely overpricing their work. Only someone operating at scale would pose a competitive threat to a company.


That is correct. A writer charges what the market will bear. I would never say, "Well, I was going to charge you $XX per page, but I'm not a very good web designer and my sales skills are weak, so I shall give you a 30 percent discount."

Right. I never considered myself to be in any kind of direct conflict with any legitimate companies and I used to go out of my way here to respond (truthfully) to allegations against legit companies I knew about even though it would have been more in my interest to just keep my mouth shut and hope that prospective customers gave up on all the companies altogether and started looking for freelance writers. I've also maintained an amicable relationship with all of the other legitimate writers here even though we are in direct competition. Obviously, my opinion might be biased because I'm a freelance writer, but at least I openly admit my possible bias instead of trying to pretend I'm weighing in with a strictly "objective" view on this industry while trying very hard to steer all customers one way or the other.


To me, it sounds like you're looking at this exclusively from the perspective of an essay-company rep who's annoyed that we have the nerve to charge the same as large companies without all the same overhead costs. From the customers' perspective, once they get a good essay from a freelance writer, they couldn't care less whether they pay that same $30 or $40/pg to a company that keeps about half the money or directly to the person who actually writes their papers. In my opinion, once customers know that a freelance writer is legit (and does good work), they tend to appreciate the direct relationship and the consistency of having the same writer do every project instead of the luck of the draw in terms of which (of hundreds) of company writers grabs a project off the company boards.

I don't offer the services of accounting or web designing, so those skills are irrelevant to my essay-writing prices. As for sales and customer service skills, I've actually explained to some nervous prospective customers that they should be reassured by the fact that I can be somewhat short fielding overly demanding requests for assurances before they trust me with their first order, precisely because the one area in which most of the scam companies excel is their "customer service" departments, mainly because, unlike legitimate writers who actually have to write all the projects we book, the job of the scam companies ends as soon as they have their hands on the money.

When prospective customers try to make me jump through too many hoops, I just tell them very frankly that I don't have the time to court them any further; that there's always a risk the first time they order a project from any writer or company; and that they might want to just try me some other time with a shorter project and/or after they try out someone else first to see what they actually get for half my price. That's something none of the scam company (and few legit company) customer service reps would ever say to a potential customer. Likewise, I don't negotiate price either, the way some scammers (companies and writers) do, because they don't have to worry about actually writing the papers; I do.

So, according to you (and you had mentioned it a few times already), the so called "legitimate companies" just set up writer accounts to anyone who needs one and then it's up to customer's luck if they receive a quality paper (or receive it at all)?

When discussing freelance writers vs. companies you tend to conveniently assume that a novice/poor-quality/ESL writer whose account was just set up will take the order. It may happen in maybe 10% of all cases, but you keep focusing on this unlikely scenario, I wonder why...

You're twisting my words: I never indicated that I knew how thoroughly essay companies screen their writers. All I know is that they asked me for my resume and a writing sample; but I have no idea what efforts they made to verify my info, and (obviously) there was no way for them to be sure that I actually wrote my writing sample. There are good writers and bad writers at every company...as well as writers who've been doing this for a full-time living for a decade or more and those who are just experimenting with a new way to try to earn some money on a part-time basis in between jobs in a bad economy who just signed up yesterday and who may have never written anything besides maybe a dozen of their own academic projects as students.


First, there's no need to wonder about me: between the two of us, I'm the one who openly admits to being a freelance writer whereas you are (obviously, in my opinion) an essay company rep who absolutely refuses to acknowledge that or even to say outright that you aren't, all while repeatedly intimating that my opinions shouldn't be trusted because they're potentially biased. All of your opinions here are no less self-serving than mine are, but at least I'm honest about being a writer.

The last time you side-stepped the question of why you chose not to designate yourself as a "Writer," "Student," or "Company Rep," you said there were too few options available and that it was not "required" to select a designation. Nobody's suggesting that it's "required," but since you brought up the limited number of options available, what designation would you select if it were available? If you won't even answer that question (or if you just say "Other"), then I'd suggest that your opinions are more questionable for potential bias than mine. You seem to be working very hard to steer all potential customers away from freelance writers and toward essay companies and I believe the reason is quite obvious.

Second, and directly to your point, I don't "assume" that novice/poor-quality company writers necessarily take most company orders. I've simply said that when you place an order with an essay company, the order just goes up onto a virtual bulletin board and that any writer (of hundreds) can grab it on a first-come/first-served basis. I know of no essay company that plays an active role in matching up projects with specific writers, much less with writers whose training and credentials match them, and notwithstanding that many companies imply (or actually say) that they do on their websites. I've worked for one company that restricted some orders to those of us writers it designated at its highest level, but every other company I know just throws every order up onto the same board where it can be grabbed by one of its best and most experienced writers or by one of its worst and least experienced writers who might get fired tomorrow for submitting inferior or even plagiarized content to the company. That's why, in my opinion, many customers prefer to use freelance writers because they always know exactly who's writing their papers.

So, "legitimate companies" (as you call them) asked you for your resume and a writing sample. "Illegitimate companies" ask about exactly the same. So how do you differentiate between the two groups (considering there are good writers and bad writers at every company)?

In 5+ years on this forum, I have never once suggested that I knew any specific company to be illegitimate; in fact, I've repeatedly said that I don't know anything about any company for which I haven't actually worked, except maybe for what I've read on this forum. When I refer to "legitimate" and "illegitimate" companies, all I mean is that everybody knows there are many illegitimate companies out there that either take customers' money and never provide anything in return or that return complete garbage copied and pasted from online sources or recycled papers as "original" content.

My personal belief is that this forum was established by one or more legitimate essay companies as a way of exposing their illegitimate competitors and that's why they also tolerate both disclosed and undisclosed representatives of other legitimate essay companies here. I'm not looking to argue with you or even to continue this particular conversation, but I don't think it's fair for someone who is an essay company rep (even from a legitimate company) to pretend that isn't the case while he purposely authors post after post clearly intended to steer all customers away from (even legitimate) freelance writers and toward (even legitimate) essay companies. All of us have self-interests for posting here and I don't think it's fair for you to continually insinuate that's the case with me (or others) while continually denying that's equally true of your reasons for posting here.

As always, I've responded very directly to your questions. I'd like to ask that you do the same and tell us what designation you'd like to be able to select since you've said that you chose not to select one because the range of "Writer," "Student," and "Essay Company Rep" is too narrow for you. What designation would you prefer?

If that was the case, there would be no public complaints about those "legitimate essay companies." But as far as I can tell, that's not the case (maybe except for some services that chose to be listed on the DND list; hmm, perhaps you're right and these "legitimate essay companies" are listed there).


That's right. But in reality you don't seem to know a lot about the companies you worked for. I know the company you've worked for is legitimate, but I think they kept you in the dark about some important aspects.


As I told you, there's no proper selection there. BUT I've just changed my signature. Are you happy now, does it change anything? Probably not, but let truth, logical thinking, and common sense prevail.

PS. It would be helpful if you explain what you mean by an "essay company." To me, an "essay company" is an entity that:

- Owns an essay service website hosted under their own domain name (EVEN IF the website is run by a single person / single writer).

I no longer discuss any companies that I write for here by name. As long as they pay me for my work, whatever else any of them does or doesn't disclose to me is none of my concern. However, if you're trying to suggest that some of them haven't considered me one of their best writers for the last decade, then it's you who doesn't know what you're talking about. Not only have they contacted me privately to offer me a premium price to write very difficult short-notice papers for their own friends, family, or associates, but I also happen to know from other writers hired more recently that they specifically cited me as an example of how well a good writer can do for himself working for them in response to questions about earning potential. Of course, it's possible they were referring to a different law school graduate living in NYC who signed on with them in 2003 and who was one of their top earners, but I'm pretty sure they were describing me to that other writer.


The only thing that would "change" my belief that you're purposely refusing to say whether or not you are currently employed by any essay company would be for you to simply provide a straightforward "yes"-or-"no" answer without any semantics or games. By "essay company" I mean whatever you have meant every time you typed out the word essay company in all of these discussions in which you argue that freelance writers shouldn't (or couldn't) charge as much for their work on a freelance basis as essay companies charge and that essay companies are a safer bet for customers than freelance writers.

Freelance Writing Rates

some freelance writers charge per hour without clarifying how it is going to be done page wise. Any suggestion for how to deal with such freelance writers?

You can try calculating by dividing the number of pages with man hours

I charge between $10 - $12 / pg for freelance clients, and get about the same with companies (between $8 - $ 25 / pg, depending on company and time of year). Overall, I am not complaining but I find I began to weed out some of the private clients in favor of companies... sometimes it was better pay, and other times it was easier to get the money. I didn't know people charge up to $35/pg! If a page takes me 15 minutes to write, I feel like that's a bit much...

Maybe I am selling myself short... I have a M.A and a bachelor of Education. However, I just started doing essays about a year ago (started with private clients.. then worked my way to companies). I work for 2 low - medium paying companies and one high-oaying ($16 - 25 or even $33 / pg, depending on reason).. as I've mentioned. I'm a good writer and consider myself as such (perhaps not as experienced as some of those here.. won't lie about that). I'm thinking for the coming year I remain with companies, and begin charging private clients a solid $15 / pg or the workload will become too high again - like it was in Feb, March and Apr of this year.

$35 per page is a normal rate for a seasoned ENL freelance writer ("15 minutest to write" - we're not talking about typing, but research + custom writing ;)

I think that if a freelance writer works using low cost prices that allow the writer to earn while being easy on the client's pocket, your clients will keep coming back. It's all about the quality of the work that's submitted to the student. Word of mouth referrals work well provided the prices offerred are reasonable. You may want to start a tip box though and encourage the students to leave a reward for you if they are satisfied with your work. It's only fair since the job you do is no small feat. They live their lives of more importance (sick or working and attending school) while the writer makes sure the student doesn't fall behind in class. Surely that's worth some extra bucks to show their satisfaction. With all of the available services these days (both company and freelance based), the best way to gain clients is by lowering prices, giving quality work, seeking out repeat clients, and basically, hoping you don't get requests for revisions or refunds. I would not pay per hour unless there is an hourly login system the client can check. There just isn't any way to accurately confirm how many hours a freelance writer uses to complete a paper without it.

Regardless of being an individual writer or a company writer, the rates of writing professionals have plummeted these days. All because the belt tightening has affected everyone. Gone are the days when writers could demand sky high fees, knowing the students can afford it. Now, when the students who would normally hire writers either have their allowances cut or they lost the job that was helping them pay for college, the writers and companies have come to learn that their prices need to be more realistic and that haggling with the client regarding a satisfactory price point on both ends is the only way for them to stay in business.

With the current academic writing market the way it is, I can't help but wonder if you have had to lower your rates for your services? I agree that students should pay a premium for writers with the proper writing skills and experience, but it appears that the students are not willing to fork out that kind of money anymore. How have you had to adjust your business since the long dry spell for writers came into play?