Define: Native English speaker

I want someone define what "Native English speaker" really means. So far I saw every person has unique understanding. We must define this term correctly to get meaningful conversation.

So is native speaker the person who:

A) Was born in English speaking country (but possible he was moved when was infant to non English speaking country - then what?)
B) Who parents are from English speaking country? (both or one? - if one does it matter what language they speak at home?)
C) Who was educated in English speaking country? (if so, what is minimum years of studying etc.?)
D) Where English is official language (like India or some Africa or Asia countries)
E) Who passed some English certificate exams

(something else?)

We must have one clear answer if we dont want confusion.

If you don't know what "native" means in this context, you're a ******* idiot.

"Native English Speaker" is a misnomer of sorts. The term has been coined to present the view that only people who are a native of say a country like the United Kingdom can speak and write "perfect" English. This is not so in my experience. There are a lot of English people who were born and bred in the UK who can't speak or write English proper and this includes even those who claim to be educated. Some of these people use language such as "I was sat" or "two foot" and so on. The government has dumbed down education in Britain to the extent that grammer is no longer taught in most state schools. There are a lot of immigrants in Britain who speak and write better English than people who were born and brought up in the UK. So there you have it - the myth of the "Native English Speaker".

Like you?


You don't know what the hell you're "talking" about. Your "experience" is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the essay industry.

TheGambit' explanation makes the perfect sense, thank you.

FAIL. STFU, Ukrainian fraudster.

WritersBeware,

As the saying goes, the truth is always an offence. No need to take umbrage however. My remarks were not directed at the essay industry but rather they were made in general terms concerning what I see in British society. There people in Britain who write and speak excellent English - the Queen's English if you like - but many of the underclasses do not write or speak proper English and this equally applies to university graduates. If you think I am not telling the truth just do some research on google.

Talking about experience with the essay industry, I was offered a "job" with Devareaux and Deloitte as a "researcher" but I turned them down when I realised that I was going to help university students to cheat. Of course they do not use such terminologies but instead they dress it up to make it appear as a legitimate activity. I don't work like that. I guide students to write their papers themselves and I have supported foreign students to successfully complete their papers. I helped one lady who I believed to be English to complete her Masters paper and her standard of English was not very good. So that is just some of my experiences.

I can give you my own understanding.
At first, only Americans, British, Canadian and Australians were considered "native speaking writers" in our company.

But later we asked English professor (who is American) to mark each writer's papers as either "ESL" or "ENL" (he had no idea what nationality really the writer was or where he lived, he was just looking at the paper).

This is how division into ESL and ENL writers works here.

Funny, but as a result, some writers from the US were classified as "ESL".

Hope this helps,
Eugene

Well, that's because you only hire unqualified, ESL writers or native retards.

I know your opinion, WB. But what matters to me is an opinion of the professors overseeing the quality of what the writers do, and the customers providing feedback. You had a chance to come here and judge by yourself, but you didnt use it, remember?

So, who is this "American English professor"? We're just supposed to believe that he/she works for your company, let alone has the necessary skills to judge others' writing?

You're not supposed to believe anything, you would believe if you agreed to come here to our office and investigate everything with your own eyes.

He has over 30 years of teaching experience in colleges, where the only thing he did was teaching writing to others and evaluating their work, and holds an appropriate degree. If he allowed me to show his credentials to the public, I would have already published his credentials on my site. And he is not the only one, we have two other equivalently skilled persons from Australia and the UK who are evaluating our writer's work for writing skills, grammar, language command, professionalism, readability and categorize them as ESL/ENL not only when they apply, but every month too.

Then why do your writers produce such s-i*?

Because, Pheelyks, you're trying to judge all 700 writers based on the absolutely WORST pieces that you see (orders that get reassigned)

Let me count what number or percentage this constitutes...

Just calculated reassignment cases statistics on all orders since 1st january 2012:

3.752% of the total number of orders get reassigned to another writer due to customer's request (other reasons then quality)

3.052% ... because customers dont like the quality of the paper
0.831% ...because the writer is late with their work
0.087% ...because of plagiarism

So you judge the rest 96% of our writers based on the work that worst 4% of them produces.

You just don't see the great papers, because they never get reassigned to another writers. They go straight to the happy customers.

Oh, wow! Your own calculations based on figures you won't let anyone else see tells you that your company is really awesome? Who would've thought!?!

I think a year ago or something I already offered WritersBeware to come to our office (on my expense) and see all of this with her own eyes, but she did not agree.

If you want, I can arrange the same trip for you.
Otherwise I can provide screenshots from our backend, but you could tell they are fake too.

As far as the awesomeness of our company is concerned, we are quite happy to be where we are at the moment, but there are things yet to be improved.

But having seen around 10 complaints on EssayScam since we've been founded in late 2005, I won't believe you're objective, Pheelyks, when you say that since we fired you, our pool of talented writers has cut in half.

By the way, we let the writers who were fired re-apply once every year to see if they have improved.


I was just answering your question about **** that you think our writers produce. Because if you only look at reassigns in the order list, It may look like that for a demanding eye indeed.

Err I don't really remember whether we fired you or you got offended with some fine or something and stopped working.

I doubt the trio: WritersBeware, Pheelkys or FreelanceRewriter has passports. They know the world from CNN and visit DisneyWorld to check out Eifel Tower.

Sure. I'll need three round-trip tickets on a reputable carrier--my wife and child will be travelling with me--and at least two nights in a decent hotel (please approve both the airline and the hotel with me before booking anything). I'll check out prices for food and everything (are we talking about Kiev?) and let you know if I need an additional per-diem to make it work. I also can't come until the second half of August, because I have a commitment keeping me in the US until then.


Of course you remember. You falsely accused me of plagiarizing based on reports for essays that weren't even mine, fined me for late orders that you assigned to me while I was asleep and that passed their deadlines before I woke up, and were generally a-holes. After explicitly warning you and telling you I would be done if this continued, I posted the last three essays I wrote for you online after the last round of fines and you "terminated" my account. You can say you fired me if you want, but I pretty effectively quit.


I have a current and valid passport and so far have only been to Canada. Eastern Europe has long been on my list of travel destinations, but especially with a family the costs are rather steep. I would gladly take Eugene up on his offer to pay for my flight and my stay in his country, if he's willing to include my family as well. Given how well his company is doing, I'm sure this won't be a problem.

pheelyks

This is becoming interesting. Can you email me please?
BTW no I don't remember, I still have no idea what your uvocorp ID was and therefore I can't check what happened to you.

You can email me. I'm sure you've PMed people before.

I will be glad to discuss all of this when you come.


I've heard from an american that Americans are known to rarely go anywhere outside America. He said the same, Discovery and CNN is how absolute majority there knows the outside world. If it were not for Chernobyl and essayscam.org they would probably have no idea Ukraine exists :) Kidding.

I've recently checked the map and understood that there are at least a few countries which i've never heard before at all.

Well, that simply means you AND your "friend" are morons.

this from someone who taunts Kenyans about huts and lions.

Do you know you would be the fattest person in Ukraine when you there? Expect reporters and girls with red flowers.

Ok I got your ID and your details finally, it appears that some our office staff still remembers you, your case and they even remember your name.

You really got into all these kinds of trouble which you described, but unfortunately there is no way to avoid customers who post urgent revision requests in the middle of the night (despite all the warnings and policies) or supply too little initial instructions and then come back with revision requests and blaming the writers. These are known issues and they exist. But to my knowledge, the dispute department, whether it takes week or month, specifically follow these cases and resolve them, very often at the company's cost.

So yes, sorry, sometimes some of our writers undergo such things which naturally make them uneasy. But most just wait until dispute department resolves their cases and cancels any fines that might be associated, instead of doing what you did.

Sure there is. Don't let them set two-hour deadlines for revision requests. Problem solved! The fact that most revision requests were completely invalid is another issue--it shouldn't take you two weeks to figure out that a brand new set of instructions was uploaded with a revision request.

Also, this was not the only way things like this happened. Your people started ASSIGNING ME NEW ORDERS in the middle of the night. These weren't revision requests from work I had completed, but work I had never agreed to complete in the first place. Waking up to fines on orders I hadn't ever taken got old the first time it happened.


I went through months of the same treatment before doing what I did, which I was also fully entitled to do--if you don't pay a freelance writer for their work, that work belongs to the freelance writer to do with as he/she sees fit. You didn't want to pay me our contracted price for the last three orders I completed, so I published the work elsewhere. It's pretty simple.

You know your company has problems, yet you do nothing about them because you have a revolving door of s-i*ty ESL writers that you don't really care about. If you did, you'd pay them better, remove the ridiculous fine structures, and ensure that customers didn't have the power to automatically generate massive fines for writers. You'd also hire at least one person that was intelligent enough to know when customers were being assh*les without requiring a month of review.

That being said, I'm still discussing the possibility of a trip to Kiev with my wife. I don't expect you to pay $600//night for a hotel, but if there isn't anywhere decent and safe to stay at a reasonable price, I won't be able to come.

Too bad that has absolutely NOTHING do do with cyber's moronic claim that Americans don't travel. I'm not at all surprised that you are clueless. That's your thing.

So you not only report your clients to their academic office for cheating but also post their custom essay online despite the client paid full amount? Just great.


Turn Discovery on and enjoy the world. Hard working Ukrainian people dont want to see not-honest merchant on their soil that sell their clients future.

This happened once, and only once, because the student in question was telling everyone publicly that he broke the law and the terms of our agreement by turning in the work as his own. He was also lying to PayPal saying I never delivered, and lying here by posting false "excerpts" of the work I completed and false "quotes" from our emails. All of this is readily observable in the months-old thread where this occurred.


The client might have paid UVO the full amount, but UVO wasn't paying me. If I don't get paid for my work, I can do whatever I want with it. If UVO wants to screw their clients over by screwing their writers over, then customers should think twice before ordering from them.


What do you know about hard work?

It was leaked one time. But how many victims may be? Only they know. And they must be scared.


Now whoever request you is risking double - one for your likely poor quality, two for possibility company dont pay you (even by mistake) and you post paper online.


More then you.

It wasn't leaked. I'm the one that posted here saying what I was doing. That's called being honest.


See, with reputable companies this is never an issue. I have always been paid in full for every order I've completed for a legitimate company.


Hmm...

look a little more deeply, Tootsie. you may find that you and cyber have more in common than you think.

Absolutely. Lol!

Sorry Pheelyks, it's true that our policies are far from perfect, I need to think about this all and discuss this with my staff

While discussing that, you might want to discuss actually passing fines onto the customers if you're not going to hire reputable writers/do away with fines altogether. This is the only way they actually make sense--the paper's late, the writer gets fined and the customer gets a discount. That way there's no actual incentive on the company's part to impose fines for no reason. In the current system (shockingly), the company sees higher profits when writers are late, plagiarize, etc. That's why we think you're corrupt cheats.

The support staff have a specific instruction not to force-assign orders to writers when it's night in their time zone. Maybe it wasn't so yet back in 2009 when you had all the troubles that you describe, I am not sure. Maybe there still are seldom errors, but even if there are, these are very few, otherwise this forum and ours would be overwhelmed with complaints.


It works exactly as you decsribed, i think - if the order gets late, the customer receives a partial refund, and the writer gets fined. I will check the rule for the fine amounts to make sure that the company and the writer share the consequences evenly (in case writers suffer more then the company now).

There is a possible situation that the customer receives their first draft, and has only a few hours left until the actual deadline. And he/she at the same time want some minor revision. How am I supposed to demand them to wait more time then they can afford?

If they need the revision in 2 hours they have a right to want it in 2 hours. Unless it is totally unrealistic in terms of the rework volume.

Another thing, is that if the primary writer is asleep or busy, and the paper gets reassigned to second writer (who is available at the moment), the first writer must neither suffer any fines nor lose the compensation for the work he did (but for the part of work that needs to be revised)

Simple. You tell them they can't have a rewrite done in 2 hours. If you wait until the day before a road trip to take your car to the mechanic and he finds problems with your car, is the mechanic obligated to stay overnight fixing it just because the customer waited until the last minute? Name one other business where things happen the way they do with your company.


No, they don't. They have a right to getting the essay they ordered done right the first time by the promised deadline. If that doesn't happen, they have the right to ask for and receive a refund. They do not have the right to have extra work done on whatever timetable they select, and if their is a slight discrepancy in the order based on a miscommunication (not the writer simply ignoring instructions), they can ask for--and might receive--an adjustment when he writer is available to perform that adjustment. They do not, by any stretch of the imagination, have the right to demand that their writer be available 24/7 to talk to them about their essay, let alone to work for them. That kind of service requires a large retainer and a much higher per-page rate than they (or you) are willing to pay.


Again, this wouldn't happen if you a)hired competent writers that finished work right the first time, and b)actually investigated rewrite requests, the vast majority of which don't deserve to be honored, instead of reassigning/fining automatically.

I would say it's slightly different situation:
Imagine you received a car from the mechanic today. And plan to drive to some meeting scheduled for midnight. But - oops, it appears the mechanic only fixed one wheel instead of two. And it's two hours before midnight.

What would the company where mechanic works try to do? Yes, save customer's ass, and assign another mechanic who works night shifts come and fix the second wheel IMMEDIATELY.

In other words, in case it's not writer's fault and they want something extra added - of course no one is obligated to do anything straight away.

But if the writer, for instance, missed some crucial thing in the instructions (it's the company who failed) - we must do something, quickly.


You speak about 100% perfect businesses full of 100% flawless writers, which is a fiction. The efficiency in delivering "right product in time" might be around 80%, 90 or even fantastic 98% but still failures would exist. Did you ever make mistakes in your papers?

So even if the writer gets fined in this situation in vain (since support didnt manage to figure out straight away that the customer is right or wrong - not all of them hold PHD in English, you know, i'm not even mentioning the situation with revision requests on Master's Level on Astrophysics, where they may quite often have not a single idea about rightfullness of the customer's rewrite request) the writer may just elevate this issue to the level of dispute department, who eventually (allright, this may take some time, not sure if that's a month though) will figure out that it wasn't or was writer's fault and act accordingly.

Maybe that's how things work in your country. Here, the person who picked up their car at the mechanic's and didn't realize that it wasn't fixed properly until 10pm when they didn't it at midnight is s-i* out of luck. They can demand a refund from the mechanic, and in some cases they could demand and sue for any losses caused by the mechanics failure to live up to the contract, but they can't demand that the mechanic fix it at 10pm (nor are 24-hour mechanics a thing around here, as far as I know).

You're also assuming the writer (mechanic) actually made a mistake, when if you have decent writers (mechanics) then the majority of rewrite requests are going to be unwarranted, as they were in my case. I'm sure that with the level of writers you hire many of the rewrite requests are valid and need to be honored; this is evidence that your entire business model is problematic, not a justification for some of your back-end s-i*ty practices.


No, I'm not. I'm talking about normal businesses, that ought to have around a 90% or higher first-time satisfaction rate. Anything less and they're losing money. The fact that your company makes money (through fines to writers) by producing lower levels of customer satisfaction is a real problem.


Not all of them can actually hold a conversation in English.


Your dispute department, when I had to deal with them, takes weeks to review an order and often decides incorrectly. I had the dispute department take away payment for an entire order when the customer uploaded a plagiarism report from a completely different order, done by another writer, that had been copied and pasted from some website. I pointed out that the topics weren't even close to similar and was told that the decision was final.

You can defend yourself all you want, but the fact is you underpay your Ukrainian staff so you end up with people that barely speak English and aren't al that bright, you underpay your writers so you end up with plagiarizers and people who can't follow instructions (not to mention people with significant English problems), and you don't return fined amounts to customers so you actually encourage your underpaid and bitter office staff to impose fines and make more money. Your company sucks because you run it like s-i*.

An objective description of the whole picture.