Ever considered entering a verbiage contest?


Very, very true.


Your writing communicates illiteracy, not carelessness.


How illuminating! Aren't you the clever one?!

Now, back to your pointless points:
Companies should pay writers 75% of the order total.
1) Payment processor fees are 2.9%
2) The good companies carry the cost of transfering funds to their writers (transfer fees vary depending on whether it's Paypal, check, Western Union, wire, etc)

3) We pay salaries (admin, management, quality control, IT etc).
4) We carry the marketing costs
5) We carry the server, etc costs
Were we to follow your `ideology,' we would be in the red. Yet, you insist that you are right. As Shakespeare would say: "A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."

Companies pay their writers `peanuts,' fine them from here to kingdom come and assign orders to the lowest bidder:
1) At $10+ (sometimes hitting $30 during the high season), the good companies do not pay their writers peanuts. The calibre they hire would not accept `peanuts.'
2) No respectable company `fines' its writers.
3) Apart from RWC, who else has a bidding system? (don't come back with EB, iF, Guru and Elance as they are entirely different)

With regards to this thread, you sought to cast a shadow of doubt on a paticular company's nationality. Your evidence was a sentence which you thought indicative of ESL writing:

1) The word you put forth as an example of ESL spelling was, as any literate person knows, British spelling
2) The sentence you used as an example was perfectly alright - no ESL writing patterns there

My comment was simple: criticise any company to your heart's content but do not judge any's use of English. You, as a very average ESL writer, are not qualified.

You are not a new member, by the way and you have an agenda here. Were you a new member, you would not have targeted WB and her supposed website from the get-go. Your agenda? I think we all know what it is by now - to portray all established companies as greedy capitalist entities which exploit their writers. You are doing so in order to argue for an alternative; you are in the process of launching that alternative and are trying to generate interest in, and support for, it.

Launch a zillion websites if you want and as long as you are an honest operator, none will attack you.

Please don't ever write for native speakers - you are not one of the good ESL writers but a very average one.

Do you know what an idology is? It ain't a business model :)


So ... disagreeing with you = insulting you?

Now, you claim that
1) you are not a writer (thank God!)
2) you do not own a company
3) you find this forum boring
So ... why are you here? To tell us all about your ideology?

As for the essay writer thread - your `argument' was smashed to smithereens by all who responded :)

Ideology? Propaganda? Wow!


The original point is writers' pay - several responded but you are fixated on portraying all as exploiting writers.


How about your conducting a little research on operation and running costs?


I can take the heat. You can't though. So, while I have not resorted to name-calling and insults, you have :)

You ignorantly identified an instance of British spelling as "ESL writing," and then sought to correct that which was already correct. When you position yourself as one qualified to correct the language of others, your ignorance should be highlighted and remarked upon.


Were you to claim that the moon is made of blue cheese, I would similarly correct you and "bask in pretentious claims of astronomical greatness."


Translation?


In your mind it probably is.

As I said before ... form your own company and pay your writers 70-80%. Go down in flames ...

You are becoming something of a bore ...

Corect but incorrect?


So, let me try to sort this out:






$10 is good (in one post); $12 is fair (in another); anything under $15 is unethical (in yet another post); $15 is "peanuts" ...

As for the `ethical' and `fair' percentage ... I've lost count of the number of times you've changed your mind.

Even the Bucks Fizz airheads, unlike you, were eventually able to `make their minds up' :)


Absolutely no argument from me there. That's why I did not comment on any of the remarks you make regarding the Example Dissertation Network, save for LANGUAGE. It was difficult to pass it up :)

I did not claim you were fond of the word but of the act itself.


No. You are not qualified, full stop :) You corrected what was not an error :)


Only there was no error :)


Back to your pet peeve. I have an idea - open your own company and give your writers 90% of all your earnings. How does that sound?

If you believe that companies are taking advantage of writers, then put your foot down; take action. Believe me - those of us who pay writers 50%, really cannot afford to pay any more. No way, no how. How are we supposed to cover our expenses? Pay salaries? Get to know the inner workings of companies in this industry before you pass judgement.

You are a bit too fond of `assuming.'

Now - you chose to comment on `ESL writing' and improper grammar. I replied by pointing out that you were not in a position to judge. Why? Read through your posts - the mistakes you make have nothing to do with `writing quickly.' You incorrectly use words (almost as if you were selecting synonyms from Thesaurus); are obsessed with run-ons; mess up your prepositions; etc etc ...


What does this mean? Ok - I understand that you don't know the difference between `rip' and `reap'but, other than that ...


Yes. Your pet peeve :) Stop assuming that all companies offer the same pay rate as RWC, AR, EW and co.


Hadn't you positioned yourselves as such, I would not have commented on your writing `skills' :)


(No comment on language) If you resent posting, why post? If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen ...

Good writers are very well paid and good companies do not pocket 70-80%, as you are so fond of assuming.

I doubt it. The company has to pay the writers, mind you.

... evident throughout your posts. While your English is okay, you are certainly not a native speaker.

I don't believe that one whose posts expose a remarkable adversity to commas is, in any way, in a position to comment on their placement.

How? Because they didn't force your order on one of your writers or because they didn't randomly `assign' it to just about anybody?


In the absence of such magical powers, the company is fraudulent!


Why ever not?!

Customers - none are in a position to `force' orders upon writers and whether you believe it or not, most try to get your orders done. If writers refuse an order, all a legit company can do is issue a refund. The scammers would have allowed any to pick up your order and botch it up. As for refunds, forget it ...

No, not at all - it's more to do with your being the company rep :) Your English is rotten; you come across as uneducated; you have zero social skills; and you are completely incapable of supporting your claims.

Good for you!


Ask WB (WritersBeware). She'd know.

In that case, contact their payment processor and request a chargeback. If they cannot establish that a paper was received, you should get your funds back.

I love that! KingDave - did you get your money back?

Exactly! Did you catch the origin of the word? I never ever knew there was such a thing as `Indian English.' I won't ever accept any other form of English besides ENGLISH ...



Tyler - make up your mind - are you a (wannabe) Brit or American?

Guess what? :)
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=40668

Very convincing, `Elizabeth'

Customers receive substantial discounts during the off-season and writers are made aware of the discount received (automatically appears on the order panel). To compensate, a company temporarily increases the percentage paid to its top tier writers to ensure that they are not paid anything under $8 per page (for research orders) - ideally $10. Its unrealistic to expect a top tier writer to work at, or below, the minimum hourly pay rate.

Centralpark, please read FreelanceWriter's response - hear it from a real researcher/writer. He basically confirms the following:
1) Professional writers do not sweat blood and tears over an undergrad or highschool essay. Graduate and post-graduate work will definitely require more effort but, not to the extent assumed.

2) if we want good, high quality, professional academic writers, we should be prepared to offer them their rightful dues - they will not even consider anything under $10 and for that CPP, the paper has to be quite uncomplicated.

3) Very, very few academically qualified writer would accept a CPP of $6-8
4) Professional writers/researchers simply cannot work with Admin and Management who are not educated, Native speakers. Communication is important and it is terribly frustrating if language is a barrier to communication between writers and Admin/Management. In other words - we have to hire EDUCATED, native speakers and they DEFINITELY do not come cheap.

5) Fines are insulting and terribly unprofessional.

FYI - the real professional researchers/writers are not fools. Even if the company they work with tries to conceal its client-end sites, they'll eventually find them out. They'll check the prices there and if they discover that they are being taken advantage of, they'll walk out.

Running a good company and staffing it with good writers/Admin/Management is costly.

THANK YOU!!!!!


What about "accent" being barrier to comprehension/communication?


I cannot speak for all sites, especially as there are many legits out there with infinitely more experience than us. As far as we're concerned, each Admin member has set working hours. During these hours/shift, they are required to:

1) manage customer enquires (whether through chat/phone), address their concerns and ensure that messages are being responded to;
2) extend similar support to writers;
3) There is a gap between writer and customer deadlines. If a writer has not uploaded the work by the writer deadline, Admin is responsible for communicating with the writer and advising him/her that they have an hour or two to upload. Supposing that the writer does not, Admin assumes the responsibility of assigning the order to one of the top-tier writers (after obtaining their consent, of course) or of completing it him/herself

4) Admin is responsible for checking work uploaded by writers for plagiarism and sending the completed work along with the plagiarism report to QC
5) Given that the Admin hired are educated, native speakers, they are further responsible for picking up the slack when the need arises (of course, they get paid for their research work)

6) At the end of their shift, Admin writes up a report on all developments, pending issues, issues resolved etc etc ... accessible to management and other Admin members

7) Admin goes over new writer requests, sends management the details of those who have uploaded the required docs along with their application (proof of identity, nationality and academic degree) and communicates with those who have not (just in case they forgot or something). If those who `forgot' do not respond within a specified time period, Admin deletes their request. Do you know how many misrepresent their nationality and academic qualifications? This is a very very important task ...

The above is, by no means, a comprehensive account but may help establish the following as nothing other than a highly erroneous assumption, based on an almost complete lack of knowledge:


Let's say that Admin is solely comprised of educated Brits/Americans and that theirs is a full time job (because it is) - how much would they be paid? Answer: they do not come cheap and, believe me, cheap is ultimately extremely expensive! Same with writers - hire people willing to work for a max of $7 and you'll end up wishing you hadn't.

Truth time - we are here to make money and will not give writers the "lion's share." Were we to do so, we'd close shop ASAP as we'd sink beneath the expenses.

Yes, we can follow the dominant model and hire Eastern European, Indian and Pakistani Admin (they are paid around $400 per month). We can also hire students as writers or people whom we suspect are not qualified - they'd be very happy with an average CPP of $6. As for management, let's just hire anybody! Why should an academic research writing website have to hire educated Brits/Americans?! Let's keep our costs down and the customer be damned! As for writers - let's trod all over them ...

In brief - running a clean operation, a proper company, costs. Writers are highly paid, Admin and management are given their rightful dues, and customers are happy.

Yes, we are not BP and are not the healthcare industry (apples and oranges) but with each order we hold the academic future of a student in our hands. That's terribly important.

I am not disputing the fact that many industry operators are dishonest. They pay their writers pennies, fine them and do not extend them any adequate support. Not all are like that, however. Those who first took this industry online (American companies) have been operating honestly for more than a decade now. Some of us try to adhere to the industry standards they established and a few have chosen an opposite direction. Don't lump us all together ...

BTW, centralpark - good of you to open this discussion as am quite sure you are expressig the sentiments of many writers ...

I do not believe that the submission of a plagiarised essay would have global economic and environmental reprecussions and it, most certainly, would not negatively impact the livelihood of entire communities. In our line of work, however, we consider the reprecussions important. The submission of a plagiarised or shoddy piece of work is nothing other than theft. It is further indicative of the company's callous disregard for the future of students who entrusted it with their work. So, whether you accept it or not, some of us do consider Quality Control very very important and go to great lengths to ensure that our clients receive that which they paid for. No, it is not BP or the healthcare industry but it is important.


They give the lion's share to their employees?


That does not make any sense. the industry is not in its infancy and has been around for ages, long before companies went online. That being said, why don't you launch your alternate model? Pay your writers 60-70% and carry all overheads from the remaining 30-40%.

You have assumed too many things here - many of which are simply wrong:
1) Companies have a bidding system in place and assign orderes to the lowest bidder
2) Companies merely function as middlemen
3) Companies do not have solid Quality Control teams in place and quality control is the responsibility of the writer
4) Companies hire unqualified ESL writers, willing to work for $6-8 per page and believe they've hit the jackpot if assigned a $10 per page order

5) Companies are here for the short term as they fear the rise of an education lobby which would drive us all out of business
6) we are all about exploiting writers

What industry management experience do you have? If any, what was the nationality of the company in question (not its name) and how long did you work with them? I am asking because your `vision' is unrealistic and your assumptions are just that - assumptions.

I could be wrong and you may surprise us all with a company which pays its writers more than 60% and manages to stay in business.

As for apples and oranges - comparing companies in this industry to BP is just that.

Mods - this line of discussion is interesting but the relevant posts should be moved to a different thread. Is that possible?


Wrong - completely and utterly wrong. Even EW and AR have much more than that :) I said
1) at least 2 Admin
2) 1 general manager for the sites
3) day to day site operation managers
4) at least 2 dedicated QC team members (AT LEAST)
5) IT support staff
6) at least 1 person in billing/accounts
7) Marketing - at least 1 person
8) SEO - at least 1 person who knows what he/she is doing and does not assume that it's all about black hat links, keyword spamming, stuffing, etc.

These are on monthly retainer and have employment contracts in place, as required by the law.


Quality control is not limited to that, by the way and writers, most certainly, will not be entrusted with self-assessment unless they have an excellent track record. In that case, their work will be periodically reviewed but all will be checked for plagiarism.


Let's see - Godaddy virtual dedicated server = $5,000 per annum; unlimited storage email plans = $30 per month (for only 10 boxes and most need more); livechat with certain features = $130 per month; etc. That is just the tip of the iceburg ...

And, by the way, I am not stating opinions but facts.


I do not use every cellin my brain when writing a paper.


A writer which needs to "toil" all day and use every "nerve" in his/her brain to write a paper, is no writer.

FreelanceWriter - you are one of the very goods ones out there and a real pro. So, I'll ask you this:
1) Would you need to "toil" all day long to produce 5 pages (not to mention use every "nerve" in your brain)?
2) Would you consider $10 per page `hitting the jackpot'?
3) Would you work for a company whose CPP ranges from $6-8?
4) What would you think of a company which hired Admin staff which were not linguistically fluent or educated?
5) Wouldn't you want your work to be evaluated by pros or would you prefer that they just went along with the complaints forwarded by problematic clients, your work and efforts be damned?

The RWC model is hardly industry-wide.


Apples and oranges ...


Again - companies do not take a commission/cut, unless they are EB, iF, etc ... totally different platform and concept.

It appears that you may have an alternative business model in mind; one which would allow a company to pay their writers 50+% of the CPP while managing all of the following from their remaining 50%:

1) taxes
2) hosting, internet services and dedicated (or virtual dedicated) server fees
3) Monthly wages of at least two Admin (if from the US/UK they are not cheap
4) Marketing costs (spamming blogs, forums, etc is not marketing)
5) Quality Control team wages - please note that if you hire real pros, as in individuals capable of evaluating academic work, they do not come cheap

6) IT support wages
7) Web and platform development costs (buying a ready-made template and hosting it for free is hardly acceptable)
8) Management wages - I believe many here know how much it would cost to hire a good, academically qualified Brit or American, on an exclusive basis ...

the list goes on and on ...

If you've come up with a model which allows you to cover all of that from your -50% and still make a profit, then you should implement it. Instead of arguing about the percentage paid to writers and referring to them as `commissions,' show us the way ...

Yes, I am. While my accounts are still active with several companies, I only write for one now.


I understand what you are driving at here and while you may have a point, a distinction does exist. At the very least, the legits ensure that their customers receive non-plagiarised, quality work and treat their writers with the respect they deserve. The legits do not fine writers or demand endless revisions of them - they know that a good writer is far more valuable than a problematic customer. Furthermore, they certainly do not hire unqualified writers who are willing to work for peanuts. They pay their writers well and actually give them bonuses. Yes, the industry may be questionable but there are many in it who run a clean operation (or do their best) ...

Exactly! And they go about advertising themselves as UK/US based companies whose writers are all Americans/Brits with graduate and post-graduate degrees.


It is equally important that writers make a similarly educated decision. Any which hire writers without checking their qualifications are hardly to be trusted. A company which cheats its customers (by hiring unqualified ESL writers) would cheat its writers.


Not at all. In the first place, only a handful of companies have a bidding system in place. Secondly, admin is responsible for much more than you've assumed. Besides manning livechat and phone lines, they provide writer and customer support, troubleshoot potential problems, check orders for plagiarism prior to passing them onto Quality Control, ensure that writers respond to customer messages, etc etc ... Good Admin staff are well-paid and well worth it.


An extremely erroneous assumption.


With the shady companies, yes. As far as the legits are concerned, however, rest assured that an active Quality Control team is in place and carefully vets orders before passing them onto customers.


Untrustworthy writers are fired. That's all there is to it.

Well-stated, Major.

Companies do not take a `commission,' unless they are EB, ifreelancer, etc. The legits run an entire operation, pay taxes, carry overheads (admin staff, management, quality control), etc ... They hire writers who agree to take on orders for a certain CPP. Writers have the option of rejecting or accepting.


No good writers work for peanuts, full stop.

Atv123 - don't give up. Yes, there are plenty of horrid companies out there and you, unfortunately, landed one of the worst. But, there are also some very good ones. Keep looking and you'll eventually find one which appreciates its writers and treats them fairly.

Flag - you are owed, at the very least - a partial refund.

Supposing that you did not consent to the extension (obvious that you didn't) you should have the right to reject the order and demand a full refund.

You paid them to deliver by a certain deadline and their failure to do so is a violation of their implied contractual agreement with you.


Where legitimate companies are concerned, it certainly is not a "win-win" situation.

The writer is, obviously, irresponsible and if the company is above board, it will not hesitate to offer the client a partial refund and fire the writer.

Writers who cannot respect deadlines or give adequate notice of their possible inability to deliver by the stipulated date have no place in this industry.

No and no. Should you wish to promote that blatant lie, that is your perogative.


Don't twist the OP's words around. PuzzledClient made no mention of your being Russian but was questioning why you lie about being American. It is not nationality which is the issue here but dishonesty.


You are a terribly ignorant person. You should not be in the research business or speak on behalf of any company operating in this industry. You know why? Because you make up facts and statistics :)

Furthermore, what do Native Americans have to do with any of this?

Does a `good service' lie to customers? A company which lies is a company which cannot be trusted.

General Comment:
You are a very rude and ignorant person. If this is how your company responds to questions posed by potential clients, yours is a company which people should stay away from.

Your English is horrific, by the way.

Now that you're back to quoting the Beatles, you are making a bit of sense ...

Somewriter, the most important thing is transparency. You, as a writer, should have all the relevant information on the website you are working for:
1) what are its client-end sites?
2) where is the site/company/owner(s) located? It does not matter if they are located on Mars or Jupiter as long as they are honest about it.

3) is the site owned by a company? It should be.
4) management, owner, admin contact info? Do you have it and are you able to reach them when you need to?

Legits do not hide pertinent info from customers/writers and they certainly do not use pseudonyms and fake names when dealing with either.

You need to know who's accountable.

Another good indicator is their recruitment policy. Did they vet you before signing you on? Did they ask for proof of your academic qualifications, etc.? If they care about their customers and reputation, they would.

Fines: stay far, far away from companies/sites which have a fine policy in place.

FWC
Let's say you don't know what you are.


Your rate is $50 per page :)

You're an RWC writer :) Hurry! There's a very tempting $4 per page order on the board - 72624. Pick it up before someone grabs it!

From $50 to $4 :( No wonder you're so traumatised.

If that's the case, you did not make your point.

Still claiming that they CONSISTENTLY paid you $50 per page?


Did you not make that claim last winter and did I not respond (at your insistence) with a screenshot of their current orders? Is lying all you are capable of? No wonder you love AR :)

I think you were a little less senseless when you replied to posts with Beatles' lyrics. Don't get me wrong ... you didn't make much sense back then but, are making none whatsoever now.


I see ... I'm a bootlicker because, like WB, I think you're unlikeable. It's hardly my fault that you are completely without merit :)


Yes, I don't like liars. Does that mean I'm sucking up to WB? Seems that in your world it does.

To each his own. You think it all fine and dandy to resell your clients' projects through your academon account, some of us don't; you think it alright to support outfits which lie to customers and hire absolutely unqualified writers, but some don't.


I'm making no assumptions at all. You've loudly proclaimed yourself an AR writer and, hence, your CPP is known. You get peanuts for the essays you write for clients which come through masterpapers et al. What do you do? You resell their papers :)

You sound like essaybay's outsmart guy, BTW.

I don't work for anyone so, unlike you, don't have to grovel :) BTW - the legits don't make you grovel either. You wouldn't know that :)


So, why bring them up? Thought you'd just throw the name and we'd not know what you're talking about? Doesn't work that way. In fact, you've just proven (for the zillionth time) that you are a liar. You boasted about your $50 per page of academic writing, lorded it over us and when pressed for the name of the site came up with the long-defunct `spunspek.' So, they paid you a total of a couple of hundred and you still can't get over the fact that any thought you worth a penny? Hilariously pathetic :)


For academic writing, no. Other types of writing, yes ... often much more as fees are calculated per word.

Now - want to reconsider your $50 per page claim?

Strange that you were working for $50 per page 8 years ago but are now `settling' for peanuts.


You forgot `pathetic,' `senseless,' `clueless' and `belligerent.'

They closed shop in 2006, I believe. Want to reconsider your claim that they consistently paid $50 per page?

Let's say you were the ONLY exception and you were always paid $50 per page ... is that why you are working for one-fifth of that, four years later? Don't let us stop you on your way down the ladder ...

I get your point about positive feedback but have a question ... isn't positive feedback tantamount to recommendations? And if we were to engage in positive feedback, wouldn't we be opening the door for recommendations, disguised as positive feedback from `satisfied' customers and `happy' writers?

Somewriter - a few years ago I had the mother of all clashes with WB (not sure if it was here or on essayfraud). At that time I was working for a few firms, including AR. AR was, without doubt, the lowest paying one (their average was $7 per page, compared to the $10+ I received from the others). Anyway, AR had some lovely Admin and managers and I really liked them. So, I tried to defend AR against what I believed to be WB's foundless and libellous accusations. We clashed, of course. Care to guess which one of us was ultimately proven correct?

I realise that the no recommendations' policy is frustrating. It is there, however, for a good reason. Can you even begin to imagine what would happen were recommendations allowed? We'd all be promoting our own sites. The legits would be doing it as would the scammers. At the end of the day, customers and writers won't be able to distinguish between the two ... they will be misled and scammed. So, whether we like it or not, the policy is there for a solid reason.

If you want to know which sites to write for and which to avoid, use the search function. There is hardly a fraudulent site out there which WB hasn't exposed. Use the search function, read, learn and be safe. Don't allow yourself to end up with a fraudulent outfit. You'll end up not getting your rightful dues.

Her yahoo group is doing well. 2 members :)


Pheelyks hasn't been around for ages, MM :) Do you still believe that WB, Pheelyks and WRT are all one person? You plastered that asinine theory all across the internet and communicated it via dozens of emails and PM's.

Am losing track of all your usernames ... so, how about I use your real name?

Remember your I AM AN INNOCENT AMERICAN STUDENT posts?
So ... how did you get together with Petey? One of your `I don't have a mean bone in my body and only want to help you' emails? It was right after you slammed his sites on another forum, wasn't it?

Since he is always ready to name (and market) sites known for their low payouts, he should be able to name the $50/page one ... unless, of course, he is lying :)