I am posting carefully selected material to successfully substantiate my claim, and you're saying I have no idea! Every reader on the forum knows whose argument has weight. I must say you're a very credulous type of guy.

I don't mind your arrogance now because even if Noam Chomsky (I hope you've heard this name) opposes you, you'd still say to him, "Hey, dude, I get your argument, but mind ya, ya got no idea of what ya're saying". (And you'd sure use many a swear word in between = your home language.)


CORRECTION!!! Idea OF what..... Ah!

Wow, Pheelyks! You're getting more and more rationalistic. I like it.


Wow, how stubborn! When a society is already replete with racism, stereotypes white-only ideology (sarcastically - it is well-known in the serious circles), can anyone imagine if ESL/EFL students are treated well?

And by the way, I already stated that I will post more material. I am giving you one blow at a time. LOL!


At least you can read through it now and don't need to scan only the abstracts as you did previously! And I know how boiled you must be (if you have gone through it) thinking of your attitude, posts, and statements on this forum and what is (contrarily) stated by Kohli.

Kindly, email the url of the article to WB and other arrogant racists like you. Get ready to read my posts regarding how pathetic US universities (especially the faculty) are to ESL/EFL students and how it is taken as a major threat to US academic industry!!! Ah, me.

Now get ready to read some latest research against this arrogant but false assertion of yours.


now you have again admitted it. However, you're very cleverly saving yourself as now you have added a new phrase "as far as grading standards are concerned".

Whatever you do, I am just going to post something very useful for you and WB - I will see how you're going to substantiate your (above-stated) claims.


I will also open your innocently short-sighted eyes on this issue, and cite from recent research (produced by US researchers!) about racism, prejudice, and stereotypes occurring nowhere but in your GREAT US universities. My bad!

Very bad! I am a different case to deal with. Ah, me.

Ok, Pheelyks, and WB - it's time to pay you back for your arrogance. See what is happening in your own country - you can imagine the material I will post on ESL treatment. Ah, got a place to hide?

Research by Oakes, Rogers, and Silver (2004) reveals continued segregation today. As of 2004, 41 percent of public schools are predominantly non-White, including students of African, Asian Pacific Islander, and Latina/o descent. This research also reports that majority non-White schools have poorer conditions, fewer resources, and higher rates of unqualified teachers than schools that are predominantly White (Oakes, Rogers, & Silver, 2004). Other studies also show that much of the curriculum and teaching styles in public schools are not culturally relevant to Students of Color (Delpit, 1995; Menchaca, 2001). The continual segregation of White and non-White children in schools, the conditions in which Students of Color are forced to go to school, and the curriculum used to teach them are all components of an education system that privileges both White students and White culture.

I strongly believe that for Black, Latina/o, Asian American, and Native American youth to succeed in this nation, we must have strong Black, Latina/o, Asian American, and Native American teachers. I also know, however, that many of us have been socialized through racially biased educational systems and carry skewed perceptions of ourselves, our communities, and other non-White racial or ethnic groups.

Reference: Kohli, R. (2008). Breaking the cycle of racism in the classroom: Critical race reflections. Teacher education quarterly, pp. 177-188.

PS: I am so sure you don't know anything about the writer (Rita Kohli) of this article although she is a very famous teacher-educator in US...........Ah. My bad!

Can you access a copy of this article? :-D

What about this Pheelyks? You're denying your own writing!

Yes, of course. I will post on US unis treatment of ESL (you have stated they treat ESL as inferior). I am just very busy at the moment, so patience my dear.

It's ok Editor75. At least you're one of the very very few who understand WB's silly arrogance. Good work buddy.

Hm, again the community-based flawed standards that can make only you happy. It's like you see your face in the mirror and praise your beauty which others hardly see. LOL.

Actually, I know you have been raised by your parent(s) to fight and they have taught you swear words to do so. So, you need someone to fight with be it Editor or anyone. However, I am from a different culture where respecting people (and showing it with a formal set of words) is the most important thing.

I also don't have time to waste to response to your posts that have the language of your home. So do not expect the same from me. Sorry dude!

Editor and WB: Guys forgive me but your fight has changed the real essence of my post; however, it's interesting to read your aggressive posts. Keep up the good work!

Wow! What about the citations I have made above? Yes, it's nothing of sort for you because it blows you out, LOL.

However, every single viewer can read and understand my point - it is another thing if their reasoning is clouded by their hollow arrogance.

Secondly, I am going to post on two points: How US universities treat ESL writing (you have already stated - inferior). I will also discuss how it is all (the flawed concept of native speakerism) related to the essay writing industry - so wait my dear.

Arrogance, sheer arrogance. I am busy; will get back to you guys soon.


I am so sorry to have you read all this (if you unfortunately have). You didn't expect such a blow! Ah, me... "Native" English speaking Americans...........


Hey dude! Welcome to the debate. You know nothing about what is actually going on and have just jumped in. You should have bothered to read a bit before making throwing your arrogant verdicts.

However, I will address your views a bit later. Adios!

I am happy to see your tone change. Now note this point you have made. I am very soon going to quote some interesting material of how US Unis deal with Standard English.


You're very stubbornly decontextualizing the entire reality which must have kept you wondering now. Ah me. But the readers on this forum must get it as a whole.


This is your first, explicit acceptance of ESL garbage being meaningful. Thank you Pheelyks: You do have a critical mind, that has started thinking in a different way.

It's clear that there is nothing like Standard English....! My quotations show the this concept is flawed.

Now there are 2 points left.

1- What it has to do with the writing industry (or our essay writing industry).
2- How do US Unis deal with the matter of meaning.

Get ready. I have surprising material to quote.

If you read again, my argument is very much alive.

I am going to post some more material soon.

Further evidence of the falsified notion of native speakerism:

Standard English

Source: Farrell, T. S. C., & Martin, S. (2009). To Teach Standard English or World Englishes? A Balanced Approach to Instruction. ET FORUM (Vol. 47, pp. 2-7).

I am waiting for your native-speakerist views.... OMG!


Thanks. At least someone understands the validity of my argument without being prejudiced.

First quotation from Holliday (2006):

The impact of native-speakerism can be seen in many aspects of professional life, from employment policy to the presentation of language. An underlying theme is the 'othering' of students and colleagues from outside the English-speaking West (p. 385).

2nd from the same source:

Such a perspective is native-speakerist because it negatively and confiningly labels what are in effect 'non-native speaker' 'cultures' as 'dependent', 'hierarchical', 'collectivist', 'reticent', 'indirect', 'passive', 'docile', 'lacking in self esteem' 'reluctant to challenge authority', 'easily dominated', 'undemocratic', or 'traditional' and, in effect, uncritical and unthinking (Holliday 2005: 19, Pennycook 2002, Kubota 2001). (pp. 385-386).

3rd from the same source:

The undoing of native-speakerism requires a type of thinking that promotes new relationships. This is already evident in discussions concerning the ownership of English and the reassessment of who we are after 9/11.1 It is argued in the conclusion to Holliday (2005) that native-speakerism needs to be addressed at the level of the prejudices embedded in everyday practice, and that dominant professional discourses must be put aside if the meanings and realities of students and colleagues from outside the English-speaking West are to be understood (p. 386).


You will never want to let your arrogance go! However, if you have access to these, I hope your posts will show a different tone from now on. Let's see.


I am waiting for the critical feedback from my "superior" native-speaker colleagues here. Any takers?


I am so sorry Pheelyks; you failed your own arrogance so mercilessly. First you hailed the fact that you had access to all of them (that you did NOT) and then you pasted extracts from a few abstracts (not the articles - poor guy).

Now, read my excerpts from Holliday (2006), and like a good guy let me have your feedback. I hope you and others (claiming their native-speakerism) would sure do. Let's see.

Editor75, you're right. I will do it asap. Let's see how these arrogant souls respond to their falsified notion of native-speakerism. I am sure all they will do is use the language their parent(s) have taught them from day one.

That's an incredibly large sum of orders you did with EW. Would you mind telling me how long did you stay with EW?

Secondly, one of my friends had a similar experience with another site probably run by the same guy as EW. You're right.

The point is even if you pass the test, you'll end up with a scam company. So better keep your enthusiasm at bay.

You're trying to hide your embarrassment by again (as usual) using the language your parents have used with you.

I have ALREADY (everyone must witness) admitted that my grasp of English is not good. So nowhere I am claiming that.

These articles I have posted because Pheelyks has asked me to put some reads because I argued some about your false notion of native speaker arrogance.

Now, I know you won't bother to read any of these (you can't even access them) because these articles will slap in your face your under-nourished arrogance of being native-speakers of English: you the one who takes more pride in using swear words rather than talk sense and properly counter a rational argument.

How pathetic!

You're the one whose parent(s) did not even teach you what correct language stands for. You're full of insults, swear words, and the like...which simply shows you have high superiority complex.

If you read the pioneering work by Freud, you'll find that a person like you is actually a victim of bad life. I can see your past (and perhaps present) are miserable, full of frustration that you try (in vain) to unload here.

Poor soul!

And you're the self-proclaimed queen of ES. Who has given you the authority to pass judgment on everything in the forum. Useless arrogance.

Without reading these articles, (I am sure you can't even access them :-D) you're making senseless gibberish yourself.
I will not answer any of your foolishly arrogant questions unless you're able to go through at least one of the articles.

You're so desperate now because these articles slap back in your face stating the arrogant falsification of native-speakerism.

Poor you!


These articles (written by native speakers of English), all in journals of high repute, center on one thing: the notion of native speakerism is false.

I will know on this forum no SUPERIOR arrogant soul has the heart to go through these because they don't want to get slapped!!!

Ah, so miserable.

Please behave! Don't let others know the real you!


If you have, then I have missed your post. You know I was out of touch lately. However, please note that dictionaries are dependent on research (both corpus-based and qualitative) and so they are produced around after 5 years of some research.

Now, some useful knowledge for you. There is an area of research known as "error analysis". Go try to read some latest research articles and you will know the difference. I will not waste my energies trying to satisfy you, the one who doesn't even know how to behave!

When I point out your errors, I am being stupid. When you do this, you're the great linguist, the Native Speaker! Wow! I can see your double standard. Shame!

Pheelyks
Sorry I was too busy to keep in touch. Your problem is you have been nipped off-hand for making many a mistake and error - the difference between the two you still don't know. LOL!


LOL! Panther you really are a Panther in a rush!


You have carved a new syntactical rule to end a question with a dot. Bravo!

I wish you knew the difference between the two! If you did, you certainly wouldn't have used these terms to over-generously. OMG!


Wow!


so*

LOL, I think he did!

You're absolutely right!

Ek to tum sust bhi ho or uper se shaki bhi. Tumhare sath to favor kerni hi pare gi mere bache!

Bete abhi aap bache ho. Kisi bare ko lao. Me bacho ki batu ka bura nahi manata!

LOL! Lazy Skeptic - because you're from Pakistan I am sparing you!

Sure. Nobody is perfect. I have openly admitted that my "English skills" - still to borrow from your scholarly vocabulary - are not strong and I am trying to learn. I hope it satisfies your arrogance of being a 'native speaker', who does not know how to start a sentence within a quote!


Yes there is a wound, even a gash. It's been since that very day you've cyberstalked my every post!

You know very well I am not talking about everyone. I just mean YOU should admit - dot!

LOL! See, I am brave enough! You should follow my example and admit the same!

No sorry I don't. I am insane!

I get your point. However, I wonder why the companies do not inform their customers about the origins of their writers.
Although my "English skills" - to borrow from Pheelyks, the Aristotle of the 21st century - are different, I do not have any problem in saying my country of origin and that English is my 2nd language.

I have never lied to anyone about these things. I hope others do the same.


Thank you! I deserve this appreciation :-D.

I must admit that my "English skills" are not the same as you. It's because it's my 2nd language. But I am always trying to improve it. I have learned a great deal from you all.

You're absolutely right here. See I am not always out to disagree or disqualify your posts notwithstanding your open opposition for me.

LOL! Ph...why are you so conscious of my legit or illegit status on this forum? I know you've not forgotten the deep wound I gave you by pointing out your silly mistakes (not errors - I wonder if you have learned the difference between the two by now :-D) and shattered your fake pride of being a native speaker of a language that you yourself poorly know. LOL!

The above chunk clearly conveys whether I understand the sarcasm or not.

Haha, my deer Phyl...I baited to hook you here. See, you're hooked....! hahahah!

LOL!

I wonder what serious advertisement really means? Is there non-serious advert also? Moreover, how on earth can you infer writer2011 is advertising? Is ES really a place for advertising lm*ao!

Sorry but you're way too skeptical. You need some intervention before you can throw your verdicts.

I am sure they must be active with some other names.