Nope. One of the things people tend to do when things are bad economically and unemployment looms is return to school. Many of them haven't done any formal writing in a very long time and dread writing academic papers now even more than when they were in school fulltime. No complaints here.

Speak for yourself and spare me your constant hypocritical toneon the topic of ethics that you repeat ad nauseum. I'm not "justifying" anything: all the companies that use me make every possible attempt to discourage improper use of the product, and we already know your opinion about that, too.

The question was why students would choose to submit other people's work for their own and I'm simply suggesting one reason is that there's arguably little value to typical academic writing assignments outside of composition class and engineering, nursing, and dental students (etc.) know that they won't ever need to do much formal writing in their careers anyway. I doubt that many students whose future careers require extensive writing would use the writing of others as their own.

4) Most academic writing assignments outside of Composition class are useless because they have nothing to do with substantive knowledge and because very little of what is considered "legitimate" academic research at the college level is anything of the sort.

In my opinion, the process of writing papers teaches very little and nobody but people who will be writing for a living should have mandatory writing assignments in the first place. The vast majority of college-level papers don't qualify as genuine academic "research" anyway: students simply paraphrase everything and then cite it all to comply with the technical rules defining plagiarism.

Undoubtedly, the ability to express yourself in writing is important, which is why I think Composition classes make a lot more sense than assigned substantive academic "research" at the college level. As a matter of fact, a recent study of professional scientific journal submissions determined that even they plagiarize more often than not. (They identified particular mistakes in the actual citations that appeared over and over in different journals and determined that professional researchers often simply copy their supposed "primary sources" from the references in other published articles because they all contained the exact same mistake, like a specific comma or semicolon out of place or other identical typos in multiple papers which is statistically impossible for multiple independent researchers to make unless they're just copying and pasting the same mistakes in the citation of other articles.) In my opinion, fudged writing in professional scientific journals is a much more serious matter than in undergraduate academic writing.

In-class essay exams are a much better test of what students have actually learned than out-of-class writing assignments. I write tons of Education and Nursing papers simply because many people, including successful educators and nurses, hate writing and are lousy at it. Luckily, writing has nothing to do with being a great nurse, precisely because nursing is about knowing what drugs and procedures to administer and how to follow doctors' orders rather than about writing essays about the history of modern nursing or the discovery of penicillin. Same goes for what makes a good teacher. I also do a lot of dental school essays and doubt that any patients have suffered any worse dental care by virtue of dentists' not writing their own papers on root canals if any of those clients chose to submit my work for credit instead of using it as a writing guide. By definition, to the extent writing assignments allow students to choose their own essay topics in the first place, the actual subject matter of their papers is arbitrary and not "necessary" knowledge. For obvious reasons, I doubt that anybody whose future career requires extensive formal writing would need a ghostwriter.

Whatever ethical issues are violated by students who choose to turn in papers they didn't write, it's not as though any of them are applying for jobs as writers or writing instructors; for the vast majority of professionals, the last formal writing they ever had to do was in school anyway.

Why is that, exactly? From what I understand, Academic Thesis Writers recently won a pretty big court case against another company that's publicly available on-line to read.

(If this takes us back to your theory of the court clerk "raising an eyebrow," contacting the Department of Education and generating an IRS "audit," please spare me.)

Yes, I'm a fulltime freelance writer and I happen to like my job; Thesis Writer is just one company for whom I work as an independent contractor. Don't you think it's extremely hypocritical that you continually accuse other writers here of lacking ethics when you're engaged in the exact same practice that you pretend to criticize? The way you harp on the issue definitely implies that you disapprove of it and would never do it yourself. That would include your last question which has been answered repeatedly on this forum, as you already know full well, hence the stupid face with keyboard characters.

I don't really care to keep going 'round and 'round on this nonsense, but it's a bad comparison on your part. If what WB was referring to involved theft of intellectual property on websites, the corporate victim could conceivably do something about that federally because it's a federal issue. But it would still be a civil federal issue, not a criminal one. You refer to "Feds" as though pursuing a civil claim in federal court could trigger some kind of criminal investigation by the ED OIG or even a punitive IRS "audit" against what you consider to be "essay mills" that harm the U.S. education system, all based on the "raised eyebrows" of some federal court clerk receiving a summons and complaint filed by an "essay mill." What makes that and the way you refer to "Feds" in that context all so dopey is that you repeatedly say you're "quite sure" that it works that way or that it should but for "robots" in U.S. government.

Anyway, can I ask you something on your underlying implication about what I do for a living? You have repeatedly said directly and implied less directly that there is something sleazy or wrong with my profession and that the company's efforts to minimize plagiarism and other misuses of its product are insufficient, right? Could you tell me exactly what you do for a living? What kind of essay writing do you do and for what kinds of clients? Could you explain exactly how you make a living writing essays without violating the same ethical lines that you continually accuse others of violating? How do you make sure that none of your clients ever submits your work for credit? Thank you in advance.

No kidding. What tipped you off? The fact that I referred to it as an informed opinion? I didn't "make it sound" like anything; I stated the basis of my informed opinion.


For the 11th time now, the DoE has no penal enforcement authority over plagiarism laws because they are state laws and the DoE is a federal agency.

Your suggestion that the DoE should be collecting information on individual students who cheat to furnish it to schools is no less stupid than suggesting that HHS should start collecting info on the eating habits of students at a particular school to furnish that info to the school's health department.

"Hello, Mr. School Physician. It's come to the attention of federal authorities that students on the 2nd floor of the Northside Dorm are eating way too much junk food. We think it's in the interest of national health for you to check it out."

That's exactly how stupid your little skit was.

Same with Academic Content Writers. We get e-mails letting us know that there are orders that need to be taken and many times, they actually amend orders that seem very difficult or unwanted to increase the payout to writers, which comes directly off the company's end (not the customer's). I've also received private e-mails and even IMs from admin asking whether I could possibly do a particular paper.

If it were just a matter of willingness to "cut off its profit margin" as he suggests, it would be a lot cheaper to update the system than to pay out extra for hundreds of papers. The only thing that's impossible is knowing in advance whether someone will still take a paper hours before it's due. That's not a software issue; that's predicting the future.

I suggest (again) that customers of any site simply add a request for the writer to confirm taking the order in the body of their order.

If it's the one about gender and tipping behavior, I could write that but the specs you requested (15 sources/ 12 non-Internet, and copies of all the sources) make that virtually impossible for anybody to fill.

I doubt there's much literature available on that topic in the first place and your specs make that a royal PITA for anybody to write. The second I read your specs I clicked off the paper and that might be the case with other writers too. Realistically, nobody's going to spend all day locating and then scanning 12 off-line sources to send you for a 4-page paper before they can even start writing it. If you can revise your specs for fewer sources and allow links to off-line sources available online, you should let the company know immediately so that someone takes the paper.


It's really my informed opinion from having worked for a federal law enforcement agency and having a U.S. law degree.

For the 10th time, there is no federal "ED" with penal enforcement authority over academic honesty for anybody to call. As mre pointed out, even the state statutes referenced aren't penal statutes that could be enforced against anybody not subject to state education laws (like professors and other employees of state educational institutions).

Really? I wasn't aware that it's possible to create software capable of predicting the future. Plenty of times orders don't get taken until shortly before they're due. What kind of "notice" would you suggest when a paper is on the board that could get taken anytime before it's due? And it's not "my" company; it's one of half a dozen sites for which I write.

Again:

Obviously, there are communication channels between all U.S. law enforcement authorities to share important information and alerts over serious threats and joint investigations of major crimes like homicides, criminal gang activity, terrorism, etc. Your scenario of a federal agent calling local authorities over purported violations of state laws about homework is as stupid as one about an FBI or DEA or IRS agent working in the federal building in Manhattan calling up the NYPD to let them know there might be a double parked car in one of their their precincts that he noticed on his way to work.

Again:

Any education laws of that type are also under state not federal authority.


In my opinion, it's a lot "tougher" to have no choice but to bribe everybody you deal with in any governmental capacity the way you have to over in the 3rd World to get a job, build a house, open a business, or pass a driving test.

I believe that Academic Writers customers do get a notice when their paper is actually taken by a writer; in fact, they provide their credit card info when they order but I don't think it even gets charged until someone actually takes the order off the board.

The problem is that there's no way for any essay company to know (let alone notify the customer) whether and/or when an essay will get taken by a writer when it's on the writer board.

First-time customers may not realize that but repeat customers know that they have a link to contact their writer once a paper is taken so they should know that the paper hasn't been taken yet if there's no "contact your writer" type of link on their account.

To be safe, customers of any commercial essay company should add a request to the order for the writer to confirm taking the paper through the message system as soon as the writer takes the paper. It's up to the individual writer to follow through, but I always have because I understand the concern.

I have no idea and haven't been following any of that but I know that copyright accusations have been thrown around here before and I'm saying that's an example of federal law, unlike any of the nonsense you're talking about in connection with "Feds." Without going through pages and pages of other peoples' fights here, I assumed this must relate somehow to federal crimes like copyright infringement of ATW's intellectual property.


Yes. it's utterly impossible that a U.S. federal agent would take it upon himself to violate the U.S. Constitution by trying to enforce state laws because that power is reserved to the authorities of individual states. Any education laws of that type are also under state not federal authority.


It's not about "robots"; it's about states enforcing state laws and federal authorities enforcing federal laws and a Constitution that prohibits federal establishment or enforcement of state laws.

Obviously, there are communication channels between all U.S. law enforcement authorities to share important information and alerts over serious threats and joint investigations of major crimes like homicides, criminal gang activity, terrorism, etc. Your scenario of a federal agent calling local authorities over purported violations of state laws about homework is as stupid as one about an FBI or DEA or IRS agent working in the federal building in Manhattan calling up the NYPD to let them know there might be a double parked car in one of their their precincts that he noticed on his way to work.

Anybody can be mistaken about a topic he knows nothing about; only a true idiot continually expresses being "quite certain" about a subject he admits to knowing nothing about.

"May be" idiots just need to learn the definition of deceit and not throw that word around where it clearly doesn't apply and is a completely ridiculous and unfair characterization.

And what I'm saying is that is really an idiotic statement. The "Feds" only have jurisdiction over violations of federal law and do not investigate purported violations of state law. Copyright infringement is a violation of federal law.


The only thing "backwards" is your ridiculous perception of how large U.S. federal agencies work, as though an agent with "raised eyebrows" from one agency just calls up the IRS and says "I need you to audit somebody." Stick to skits about your own country where the only way to get anything accomplished with any government agency is to grease somebody with cash every time you submit a form or apply for any kind of legal registration for anything regulated by the government in any way, shape, or form.

"Audited"? Really?

So your understanding of federal law and administrative agencies is that there's a single federal office where copyright infringement cases and education issues are handled and the IRS also works out of the same room and agents for all those agencies hand files to one another across the desk?

You realize that federal copyright issues apply just as much to industries and products that you may find "offensive" (like essay writing and hardcore midget orn) as to industries and products that you consider "acceptable," right? You're aware that appellate courts of law have already decided those types of issues in favor of commercial essay companies, right?

Are you aware of any federal law that prohibits commercial essay writing, even where students do turn them in for credit as you suggest? If not, that would make your scenario there pretty stupid unless you think your opinion of a particular industry or practice dictates what issues federal agencies pursue rather than violations of federal law.

You're an idiot. There's nothing a company can do if no writer is available to take your order. "Deceit" would be keeping your money without sending an essay or sending you some old crap for the price of a new essay. If no writer takes your essay, you get a 100% refund on your next credit card billing cycle; that's honest not "deceitful." Would it be better if the system had a way to let you know that no writer took your paper before the due date? Sure. But how are they supposed to know in advance that nobody will take it before it's due? Sometimes, papers get picked up on the very last day and get done on time.

What is your question? I've been writing for them since 2003 and have no other interest except as one of their writers. I'm not "fanatical" about it, but when I read total BS on here I defend them based on what I know firsthand.

Maybe "making papers" is just a very honest scatological characterization of relative quality.

I have degrees in law and psychology but I don't speak French; therefore, I can't write a legal or psychology paper in French. If I spoke French well and wrote well, my written French would probably still be recognizable as foreign French writing. If I wrote perfect French, I'd still never take a paper on any subject in which I didn't have the requisite understanding to write.

Nobody's suggesting that writing skills or language fluency makes up for lack of substantive knowledge or vice-versa and nobody is confusing those two completely separate issues. Except you.

It's definitely possible. I'm born & raised in NYC and the three biggest influences on my English skills were my German-born father and uncle and Tek Young Lin, my high school English teacher: all English grammarians and scholars. The problem isn't that non-native speakers "can't" achieve excellence as English writers; the problem is that it's (apparently) quite common for non-native speakers to confuse English speaking fluency/and perfectly competent writing with written English that is 100% unrecognizable as non-native. You can write very well but still not in a way that completely extinguishes the written analog of a spoken "accent." Same way many foreign speaker can never eliminate their accent 100%. In both cases, it's possible, but many more think they have reached that level than actually have.

That's the situation with some people here whose every post proves the point and who have absolutely no idea that's the case and think that pointing it out in the context of whether student's have a right to know the truth is an intentional insult to them. It isn't, but if I can tell you're a non-native speaker just from your forum posts, you have no business ever not disclosing that to potential clients in advance. If your clients are OK with hiring someone they know writes well but is a non-native speaker, I don't see any issue. They should have the chance to make that decision for themselves, though.

"Personal" would be insulting your writing because I don't like you.
"Principle" would be insulting your writing because I don't like anybody who writes English the way you do and holds himself out as a professional writer in English. Nothing personal at all; strictly objective principle.

Same as always: I'm just continually amazed that someone whose English writing ability is as bad as yours actually expects native English speakers to pay you to write in English. The fact that you never have any idea what's wrong with your obviously foreign idiomatic expressions even after I point them out only proves how ridiculous it is for you to hold yourself out as a professional writer in the English language. Nothing personal.

I'm guessing one whose native speakers know that isn't English (unless the poster you're addressing is a territory or a slave, in which case I apologize).

I've only been burned one time. Wrote about 2 dozen papers for one student over more than a year. I always insist on prepayment generally, but during that time, she asked me to let her pay late a few times after her paycheck cleared (or whatever) and always made the payment on the day she said she would. She stiffed me on the last couple of assignments I wasted my time writing for her over one weekend after promising to pay me Monday. Since then, no exceptions for anybody on the prepayment thing and if a prospective client doesn't trust me enough to prepay the first short assignment, we just don't do business. Had a few who (understandably) needed a more lengthy explanation of why they should trust me, but nobody has ever actually refused.

That's a shame. I've been writing for them since 2003; I know how they do business, and they're as legit and honest as there is in the industry.

I believe there's more than enough information posted on old threads to figure out which commercial sites or freelancers are probably legit, which ones are technically "legit" but provide an inferior product, and which ones are outright scams. There's also some info about helping the legit companies get your orders actually taken by their writers once orders are placed. You can also use the search functions here to check previous posts from anybody who strikes you as likely to be credible.

The rules of this forum don't allow recommendations about good sites, just warnings about bad ones.


If you e-mailed them, they will get back to you as soon as they have a chance; their customer service dept doesn't necessarily run 'round the clock and they have a lot of customers. If you used the e-mail link they provided, they'll respond. You can order from the system 24/7/365 without human assistance though.

Unfortunately, I don't think he's allowed to here.

Thanks, but that's not me. There's a recent member who uses that name here.

Why don't you just tell him that blackmail is a serious crime and that becoming someone's b**ch in a federal prison is a lot worse than any problems he/she can cause you in school?

Sounds like a really great business model, just like a car repair shop that only takes one vehicle at a time or a supermarket that only allows one customer in the place at a time.

I routinely have between 6 and 9 papers pending on my company accounts simultaneously and 2 or 3 freelance jobs pending, all of them due within a few days. I don't miss any deadlines and often write 3 or 4 high-quality papers in a 12 or 16-hour workday. Successful companies allow you to build up your paper limit with a record of good performance and just dial back a writer's maximum if quality falls off or you start missing deadlines.

What? Admitting that I write for some of the companies that get defamed on here by competitors when I defend them based on personal knowledge? What should I do instead? Pretend to be a "customer" providing honest reviews like all the lying dirtbags on here to try to steer real customers away from legitimate companies so they can rip them off?

How's that, exactly? I have previously tried to explain how students sometimes place orders on essay sites in a way that tremendously increases the chance that those orders will just never get taken by writers and I've suggested ways of avoiding that problem. If anything in this thread constitutes "asking for" private business, why don't you explain what part I should have phrased differently to avoid that accusation.

If I didn't disclose that I write for companies, you'd accuse me of deception and complain that I must have some fraudulent reason for defending those about which I happen to have personal knowledge. I've openly admitted to writing for several reputable companies and I always defend them against accusations that I know just can't be true. When it comes to other sites, I always admit that I don't know anything about them because I don't and I've never said anything negative about any site that competes with any of those to which I have any connection.

In what fantasy land do you live where an essay company would (1) ever be "questioned" by a university or (2) "give up" any information about its clients? Universities don't have any legal authority to demand any information from private companies.

Make up your mind already: Is your problem with ET that they DO prohibit plagiarism or that they DON'T? You've started threads complaining that they should be more vigilant against plagiarism and now you seem to be implying that it's a waste of money to buy essays unless the company DOES allow plagiarism after sale. Which is it? If you're against plagiarism, what do you care about students who plan to misuse the product? If you support plagiarism, what's with all your complaints in other threads that ET doesn't do enough to counter it?

Only an idiot would try to maintain both positions simultaneously.

Reputable companies inform their clients what uses of their products are permissible and warn them about impermissible uses. As a practical matter, no essay company has the means to know what students do with their work. They include the prohibition in the contract as a deterrence.

It is inconceivable that any essay company would "take legal action" against a copyright violation that doesn't involve selling their property. For students who use the product properly, they can definitely learn how to structure an essay, write properly, and research effectively from it.

You're confusing two very different issues: 1. Academic Dishonesty and 2. Commercial Fraud.

Yes, it is dishonest to submit our work for academic credit. Reputable companies try to discourage that use of their work but cannot possibly police what students choose to do once our work is in their hands. That issue is obviously the same regardless of where a paper company is located or whether ESL or native English speakers write the paper.

The fraud charge has to do with ripping off customers by providing plagiarized work when you promise them all-original material and with making claims about being located in the U.S. and/or about using only American writers when you're actualy located elsewhere and use ESL writers.

The fact that you continually confuse those two very simple issues suggests either that you're an idiot or that you're simply a resentful competitor of the companies whose success you envy. I'm not discounting the possibility that both are true, either.

Relax. I believe refunds are credited to your credit card but it takes a full billing cycle to show up, just like any other business/service cc refund. I saw that order (very high-level mathematics topic, right?)*. I'm amazed anybody took that order in the first place, but things do happen beyond our control. I wrote several papers from my dad's hospital room a couple of years ago and when he died, there were a few still pending on my account that had to be either reassigned or refunded if nobody else could do them in time. We're human, not writing robots and occasionally we miss work because we get sick, experience computer crashes, and suddenly lose members of our families just like anybody else. I'm sorry your paper didn't get done, but just check your cc statement next month and I'm sure you'll see your refund. If you'd remember to come back here and let everybody know you got it, that would be fair too.

*[post edited after I realized you purposely left out the exact topic]

I am no more "anonymous" than anybody else on this forum. I haven't "peddled" anything since being reprimanded for it. I only mention the sites for whom I work in response to completely untrue statements (mostly from you) that contradict my first-hand knowledge of how those companies conduct business.

But since you asked, I'm a full-time freelance writer born, raised, and educated in NYC; my formal undergraduate degrees are in History and Psychology and my graduate degree is in U.S. Law. I used to work as a Writer-Editor for the Office of Inspector General of a very large U.S. federal agency in the Manhattan regional office and I have written for about half a dozen of the best essay companies in the business since 2003. I am married to a professional singer who used to be an exotic dancer, we live in NYC, and we have a cat. As WB has repeated several times, TPW publishes its address right on its websites and they are physically located in New Jersey. I wasn't aware of any California offices, but I'll take WB's word for it.

Anything else you'd like to know about me, Stu4pid?

Nope. There's a difference between keeping records of e-mails and actually monitoring all e-mails from dozens of writers about 1,000+ essays a month. They don't want any direct contact between writers and clients because they'd lose too many customers to writers poaching them. Our e-mails are all retained in the company system but that doesn't really prevent establishing direct contact; it only provides evidence to fire the writer after their customers start disappearing.

I've established myself as trustworthy and have been given customers' contact info at times to expedite the exchange of source files and so forth, but only because they kept requesting me afterwards. I also refer my private clients to the company for papers I can't do. If their customer suddenly stopped placing orders after we established contact, the company would have noticed but only because they would have known to check in those specific cases where they knew we were in contact. They couldn't possibly monitor every contact between writers and customers if they allowed it.

One site provides an auto-relay email message system that doesn't disclose contact info; another uses a message posting system on their site for every pending paper. It adds a step to the process, but that's probably the best they can do.

Stu4pid assumptions as usual. It doesn't work that way: if the order had been taken by a writer, that's the only writer who'd ever be working on it or getting paid for it. I saw it on the board. The fact that nobody ever took the order kind of blows up your whole hypothesis that it was any kind of false test orchestrated by anybody affiliated with the company. He got a refund just as I've been telling everybody is exactly what happens if nobody takes the essay.