Please, don't say that we, the students, are cheaters.

First of all I'd like to say that these type of forums are very helpful for students, it prevents them from literally getting robbed.

Second thing, people who consider that buying services from such sites is cheating are completely wrong. The usual example is: "Imagine that your teacher did the same and ends up teaching in a university! That wouldn't be fair for people that actually worked on their own!".

That's a crappy argument!! For the simple reason that to become a recognized University teacher, he needs to be recognized by his peers or the industry that he worked in.

I am an MBA graduate working for a major financial institution and I have in the past bought services from such sites for essays and even for my dissertation...

That doesn't change a thing, for the simple reason that what i have learned in class is what actually matters.

Nobody asked me what my dissertation was about, or even the grades I have received... What matters is how you handle your work on the job.

Whether your good or not at what you do, that is what matters!!

If you do suck at what you do, then you'll simply get fired and be replaced by somebody that don't suck! LOL I can discuss this for hours with thousands of examples, so please, don't say that we're cheaters.

IF you buy an essay from an essay writing company AND then submit that as your OWN work WITHOUT ANY alteration or acknowledgement of the source then YES you are a CHEATER. How can you submit someone else'd work as your own, and then claim that YOU achieved that grade? NO you didn't YOUR writer did.

You may not care about proving--outside of your own skull--that you actually deserve and have earned the job, but I damn well bet that your unknowing clients would care.

oooh sounding more and more like WB everyday ss.

ouch that hurt SS lol although I have ALWAYS maintained that submitting custom written essays as your own is wrong. In fact my thesis is on exactly that topic so I guess comments like that from Damocrian reinforce my theory that MANY students submit these essays as their own work.

One of the purposes of a university education is to allow students to develop and formulate their own ideas. There is plenty of current literature which can be referred to without sites of this nature.

Rubbish. Students who don't submit essays as their own would have no reason to frequent this site or post, making the population of individuals that you claim to support your thesis tainted.

This is not the ONLY source that I am using for my thesis. This site demonstrates quite nicely that several students are looking for essays that they can use as their own without altering the content. Lavinia from your above commet you are suggesting that ALL students that visit this site use the essays as their own as in your OWN words 'STUDENTS WHO DON'T SUBMIT ESSAYS AS THEIR OWN WOULD HAVE NO REASON TO FREQUENT THIS SITE OR POST'

Posting in all caps is pretty obnoxious.

So, how many is MANY (as you stated in your sentence?). I provided evidence that said 2-3% of student customers turn in their purchased essays as their own months ago and you NEVER provided any counter evidence, so I'm quite curious as to the source of your information and what percentage of student consumers you contend are turning in their papers as their own.

But how reliable is your 2-3%? In the proof that you mentioned, it might have said that only 2-3% of students submitted essays that they bought exactly as those essays were but did it say how many students submitted essays after making only very minimal changes? Did it define the line between submitting something you bought and submitting something that can be called originally your work? Did it mention how many of these students who buy from essay writing mills actually quote the sources of their information as coming from such sites?

I think that it is utter naivety to even consider that a majority of students who buy from essay writing mills do not turn in what they buy to their professors. Sure some of them might go through the trouble of paraphrasing some or even the entire order that they bought but that still does not mean that they can claim the work as originally theirs.

However as for Damocrian's point in this thread, I believe that it is first and foremost the university's responsibility to safeguard their academic standards against the cheating that we do. If they suck at their job, then that's their problem.

One more thing: mysecurepayment/research/order.php

This is supposed to be one of the "good" essay millls according to WB. ^_^ The quote below is take from their site:

It is not legal for us to sell research to anyone who indicates that he or she will submit our work for academic credit.

Can everyone say it with me? Loopholes. :)

That is ACTUAL LANGUAGE from state laws. It's not a "loophole." I know it's hard for you to believe that some companies are 100% legitimate.

If you want to check the reliability of the data, I suggest you read the studies. I posted information on 4 different studies published in academic journals in the U.S. or the U.K. They all supported the 2-3% figure. So, in light of zero counter evidence, I'd say their reliability is pretty good.

So where is your counter evidence?

Can everyone see the inherent lack of logic of this statement? The actual language of the law is what causes the loophole that makes the provisions that are supposed to guard against students submitting papers that they buy as their own ridiculously punitive. I'm not questioning these companies' legitimacy. My post has nothing to do with legitimacy and you are oh so sorely off-topic which your ever so predictable protectionist statements. :P


Does common sense count as evidence? I think one student here once wrote against the logic of buying something that you're not going to submit. I don't know, I'm not about to spend time trying to verify one way or the other. ^_^ But really, don't you find your evidence at least surprising?

Common sense only gets one so far. When the common sense of a few clash, I'll gladly take empirical evidence as the tie breaker. I did the research before I started working in this field, so I entered it with an open mind and I didn't really find the evidence surprising.

Okay, so let's take your empirical evidence into consideration. So are you saying that you firmly believe that 97-98% of students who buy just read the work and turn in something completely different from it? By completely different, I'm refering to something that goes beyond simple paraphrasing which is still counted as plagiarism if you don't site the source.

I'm saying that multiple published academic studies should be given a greater weight than your personal views.

I wouldn't limit this viewpoint to just this industry; frankly, my preference for evidence to ground opinion applies to pretty much all subjects. The earth is flat sure seemed like common sense at the time, and some people still believe that the earth is flat, but...

I could ask you what percentage of customers you believe cheat... but what would be the point? It would be purely a guess, based upon no controlled study and unreliable data.

Not when the coomon sense views make much more sense. :) Being a stat buff, I'm well aware of how the numbers in studies conducted can be twisted to agree to biases. Still, I am making no accusations. I just really, really, REALLY think that it's absurd to think that the majority of students who buy from us submit something very different from what they get from us.

The question is, am I the only one who thinks this way? >.<

Right, and "common sense" leads folks to believe that the sun revolves around the earth. Common sense should give way to evidence disproving its claims.

It's absurd to think that multiple academic professors would twist the data to bias their reports to show that students aren't using the papers to cheat. If anyone, professors (particularly those in the UK, where according to SS ALL uses of essay companies constitutes cheating) should be foaming at the mouths doctoring the data to show that ALL students cheat.

Aw c'mon, that's not fair. We really have to distinguish between scientific discoveries found through experimental reseacrh methodologies and statistical conclusions based on data analysis which are considered less reliable than the first on any day.


Do you have empirical data that supports this? :P See what I mean? Even if professors do not have any incentive to fudge results (which I am not totally saying is the case), the students who are most likely their subjects in their researches do. If these studies use survey questions (as they most likely do), then the possibility of respondent bias abounds. :D

Bottomline is, it's also quite absurd to buy something that you're not going to use. If students just used papers that they bought as sources, they'll get those for free if they search the internet. Furthermore if that was the case, then they also wouldn't mind if the paper they got was plagiarized since they're going to paraphrase it anyway. :D But the thing is, they do mind. Students want to buy non-plagiarized, outstanding papers because they want to submit it (or change it slightly and then submit it) to get good grades. It makes so much more sense than any "scientific" study that claims otherwise unless that study can actually present a million or so papers written by students who bought customized papers and compare such work against what they bought.

well what else should i say , they said almost everything, and me Amen

Do schools look the other way when it comes to essay cheaters?

A professor once was going on about using essay writing services for reports he needed done. He then went on about how he's seen too many students have breakdowns in Grad and Doctorate programs because something about how essay writing is something the human mind can't naturally do. He even said his favorite sites, which at the time I didn't think to remember what he said or write it down because I was doing all my own work. It just came across as if he was encouraging students to use an online essay writing services.This is counter to a large anti-cheating agreement students have to sign.

I get the feeling that while the school says they're strict on cheating problems, the profs and departments really don't care. I suppose if they're goal is to get great research proposals and essays that can be added to journals, they wouldn't want to know.

I wouldn't be surprise if some day they get rid of essay writing and find an alternative.

Wishful thinking...

The point is that universities call it cheating. Even if you just use someone else's edit ideas. If you have someone offer edit ideas and you copy them verbatim then it is now considered cheating. I had a sign an agreement not to do that in order to get into my MA program. They now don't even want students using others students books because the other student may have underlined key points and made their own notes in the margin that you may use.

It is cheating to take someone else's completed essay and saying it is your own, but as for taking essay advice, I disagree.
The writing help services at school can't even tell you more than "there may be a few writing mistakes in this sentence" and "it should be reworded a bit"

I think its gotten too extreme because there are so many similar essays.
Personally I couldn't find a fair person to help with my essays and I'm not willing to risk another scam, but if I found a reputable writer, I would use them if only to get a different view and some edit ideas. What is the difference between using someone's edit advice and reading aloud your essay to a smart roommate for their feedback? None.

This is a hot topic, but if students are concerned about cheating, or plagiarizing as it really is, yet they do not wish to start from scratch, a good route forward could be to commission work from an academic writer and then use this as a guide on which to base their own work. Essentially, the idea is to use work written for you as a model paper, which is a decent compromise.

I totally agree with you. I am a student and have full time job (I have to deal with my credits). In the period of exams I have so many papers that I just have no time for these. So I often use writing services . I am not a cheater but it's the necessary evil.

So then, if you are a student, do you submit other writers' papers as your own work since, as you claim, it is a 'necessary evil'?

Why are so many students determined to justify their choice to use an academic writer to the actual writer? There's definitely no judgement from us. It's students who don't want to do their own work, or can't for whatever reason, who give me a living.

I've also noticed this. New clients sometimes go into great detail about their situations and the various reasons they're in need of writing services. It's really not necessary. On my website review page, I've explained that I understand much better than they might assume how intimidating writing assignments can be, especially for undergraduates. As a student, I dreaded term papers just as much as they do; and I never imagined that I'd be making a living writing them someday.

It's actually quite endearing actually and makes me think their justifications are true. Clients who don't seem to have issues with guilt are more frequent and usually the transactions are faster and more efficient. The ones who need to justify need reassurance that everything will be fine.

If you are learning something from those essays then it is OK. Don't be a regular customer of such writing service, then you will be called as cheater. After using two or three times try to write by yourself.

HelenGreene, please take your fake, "American" name and utter lack of skill elsewhere.

Do ESL writers think that everyone is dumb enough to be fooled into thinking they're native English speakers? Or do they just have a false sense of confidence in their English abilities? Baffling.

For the ESL frauds, it's a numbers game. They prey on the stupid.

Oh look, magic. HelenGreene relocated to India in one day :D

There are some great bargain basement flights available online to India these days :P

Edward Albert Filene (1860-1937) was the American merchant who, as president of the Boston-based William Filene's Sons, pioneered the "bargain basement" concept (Filene, Edward Albert. The Columbia Encyclopedia, 6th ed, 2016). Filene's Basement began operations in the basement of the flagship downtown Boston store in 1909 and was originally intended to sell excess merchandise from the larger Filene's Department Store above it; over time, however, the bargain basement became so popular that vendors began selling merchandise directly to the basement retailer (celebrateboston/first/off-price-store.htm).

We aren't actually cheaters. But the life makes us be flexible. And due to several sites we may save our time. As for me, I always use ESL confirmed PaperHelp - and all my papers are done. Fortunately, have enough money to allow such a service.

PaulRuddIsNotaDudd = Treton = Sgt_Dollarhide

SAME FRAUDSTER

On the other hand, the quality of fake names is improving. I call them "valued clients" because I'm not a hypocrite.

Okay, we won't call the students cheaters since we do make our bread and butter from their lack of interest in academic writing. What would you prefer to be called? Lazy? Incompetent? Unteachable? Unwilling to learn? Procrastinators? Socially active academic learners? Let's see... there are still a number of choice descriptive words that could be applied to students that hire others to do their academic work for them. Whatever words are used to describe them, the bottom line is that the academic writing services that the students hire allows them to get around the system. They don't do the work and yet they get the grade for it. In fact, they can even demand the writing level and skill of the writer they want to hire in relation to the grade that they desire to receive. What does one call such a student? Wait a minute, you are right. We shouldn't call the students cheaters. We should call them by what they really are, our "employers". Thanks to students who don't have the time or simply don't want to do the work, we have found a line of income generation that allows us to call ourselves "employed".