Words per page only 225 or 250? CUSTOMERS BEWARE!

MOD: How about making this a "sticky" thread so that it always stays at the top?
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I'm sick and tired of foreign ripoff sites lying to and misleading their customers! All of the fraudulent sites from Ukraine and Pakistan provide unsuspecting customers with only 225-275 words per page. Such sites intentionally use LARGE fonts (Courier, Courier New, Verdana, etc.). Why? Using ridiculously large fonts enables them to cheat customers by completing a "page" more quickly. Plus, the words that they provide are almost always either plagiarized/stolen or written by unqualified, ESL writers with terrible writing skills in the English language. However, these facts do not stop such foreign ripoff sites from falsely claiming that their writing is better and prices are lower than the writing and prices offered by legitimate sites in the United States. Legitimate companies in the United States provide 300+ words per page, written by QUALIFIED writers like me, which is a much better value.

Large, Ripoff Fonts:
Courier, Courier New, Verdana, and Geneva

Legitimate Fonts:
Times New Roman, Times, and Arial

CUSTOMERS, REMEMBER:

1. The bigger the font, the fewer words per page. This is the most critical factor in comparing one site's prices to another site's prices. Just because SITE A charges $14.99/pg doesn't mean that it's a better deal than SITE B's price of $18.00/pg. In fact, SITE B is almost certainly the better deal because it may provide 50+ more words per page and the writer will be a qualified American who does the job professionally and correctly the first time.

2. The cheaper the price per page, the less qualified and skilled the writer will be--and you'll also need to cross your fingers that he/she doesn't simply steal the paper from somewhere else and illegally pass it off to you as his "custom writing." Don't be fooled by lower prices, especially since it doesn't cost these foreign ripoff sites anything to steal a paper and email it to you! Since they don't have to pay a writer when they steal a paper, the price that they charge the customer (YOU) is entirely profit, so they can "afford" to advertise cheaper prices than the legitimate, American sites!

COST ANALYSIS:

Fraudulent sites from Ukraine/Pakistan:
$9.99-$16.49 per page (225-275 words per page) for delivery in 1 week
10-page paper = 2,250-2,750 words (either stolen or ESL in nature)

Legitimate sites from the United States:
$17.00+ per page (300+ words per page) for delivery in 1 week
10-page paper = 3,000+ words (by a qualified American)

CONCLUSION:

1. Avoid sites that provide only 225-275 words per page.

2. Avoid sites that charge less than $17 per page for delivery in 1 week.

Reference: https://essayscam.org/calculate-writing-assignment-cost/

WB are you admitting to being a writer? I am confused!!

Well, of course I am a writer, but not for essay sites.

OK! The post seemed to imply to me that you were working for an essay writing site, that was why I thought I would ask. I think others might also get that impression and we know were that will lead :)

I'm sorry WB but this time I have to disagree with you. Using a bigger font does not automatically make a company a fraud. I can think of at least one long running U.S. based company that uses Courier New Font.

As long as the company provides information about Fonts on their website, I don't see an automatic problem.

The standard (most common) font for scholarly documents that professors request is Times New Roman. Legitimate companies use that standard because the owners of legitimate companies realize that the average student's perception of a "page" is defined by the professor.


I didn't claim such. However, when they claim to have "better service" and "cheaper prices" (apples-to-apples) than all other competitors, that constitutes--at the very least--dishonesty and deception.


I am well aware, and if you're referring to the American company that I think you're referring to, I do not consider it a legitimate, American company because it engages in some other, extremely unsavory sales tactics that I will not address in this thread.


I have not come across a single site offering 225-275 words per page that openly admits to customers that the value of their competitor's "page" is inherently higher because the competitor provides 300+ words per page. However, I can show you about 500 250-word-per-page sites that compare their service and "per page" price, apples-to-apples, to 300-word-per-page sites. That's blatant dishonesty and I'm taking it upon myself to make consumers aware.

I don't believe that font is that big a deal in the academic world. I have never specified a font style for my students and I can't remember a professor of mine ever saying "you must use this font." But we can agree to disagree.


No point in being coy. I'm talking about Papermasters, a company that you have referred to as legit.


Papermasters uses Courier New Font. There might be other examples of legit companies that do so as well but they were the ones I thought of immediately when I read your post. That's my only point - customers shouldn't automatically think that a site is not legit just b/c of the font used.

Its different in the UK...they provide us the exact number of words to be written and I think they charge per 1000 words....

But hey that was a good one WritersBeware....very useful information.....

google.com/search?hl=en&q=academic+%22times+new+roman%22


Every professor I have known has told the class to either write a certain number of words (if, of course, the assignment has a required WORD-count) or not to use "big" fonts like Courier New, Geneva, Verdana, etc. (if the assignment has a required PAGE-count). In my extensive experience in the academic sphere, Times New Roman is the standard--or at least most common--font.

Lavinia, let's take, for example, two sites that we can both agree are owned by legitimate, American companies: *********.com and PaperMasters.com. In fact, you work for both companies, right?

PaperMasters.com uses Courier New font
Courier New font ≈ 225 words per page
PaperMasters charges $20.95/pg
A 10-page paper (≈2,250 words) from PaperMasters.com costs a customer $209.50.

*********.com uses Times New Roman font
Times New Roman font ≈ 300+ words per page
*********.com charges $18.00/pg
A 10-page paper (≈3,000 words) from *********.com costs a customer $180.00.

PaperMasters.com charges 14% MORE money for 25% LESS product.

I just searched the entire PaperMasters.com site and could not find a single mention of the number of words per page--not even on the PaperMasters.com order form! Do you think that's an honest business practice by PaperMasters.com? Why does PaperMasters.com not openly advertise the number of words that it provides per page, like *********.com?

From the "Prices" page at PaperMasters.com:
Term paper services that are legitimate cannot be provided for anything less than what we pay our writers.

You will surely admit that PaperMaster's claim is blatantly false, as *********.com offers equivalent or better writers, 14% lower prices, and 25% more words per page.

I started this thread to highlight the tactics of fraudulent, foreign companies from Ukraine and Pakistan. However, you left me with no choice but to address PaperMasters.com.

The average customer has NO IDEA about these critical differences that certain companies try to keep quiet. I am quite certain that the information I have provided will be extremely useful to nearly every prospective customer of any research site.

WB, did you even read the links that your google search provided?

From your search:

"Using Times New Roman is something a lot of people will do on their papers because it's the default Microsoft Word font. Everyone else is doing, so should you! Unfortunately, while Times is a popular font, it's not necessarily the best"

"Everybody starts out using Times New Roman, I think. It's the default in most text editors, and the natural tendency of first-year college students being lazy, it's unlikely too many of them bothered messing around with the fonts until at least later in their studies."

"But for your academic paper, a Serif in the copy (copy refers to the main text, thus the term "copywriter") will work best. In fact, a lot of schools/teachers actually require you either use a specific fon, or at the very least a Serif. If a teacher tells you to use Times New Roman, don't worry about it. Unless they're your Typography teacher, don't worry about them being able to tell the difference.

Some good Serif fonts:

Georgia - Nice and round, and a relatively big font.
Garamond - A good alternative to Times.
Palatino - Another good alternative.
Century - Don't confuse it with Century Gothic!"

That clear? Your assertion that Times New Roman is the standard doesn't mean anything and your google search proof hurts your argument.

And they also address why Times New Roman is the most common font - it's the default for Word. That has nothing to do with academic preference. You're trying to make font out to be more than it is and it's really not working.

And what is your extensive academic background? Do you teach classes, b/c I do, and frankly, as I stated previously, I've never required them to use a specific font. And if you don't teach, then where are you gathering your information from?

Your data is flawed. Papermasters uses two set prices (rush and non-rush) while ********* varies their price daily (different price at 7,6-5,4-3,2,1, under 1). So, let's do some comparisons:

5-6 day timeframe:
********* = $21.00 per page (21/300 = 7 cents a word)
Papermasters = 20.95$ per page (250/20.95 = 11.9 cents a word)

3-4 day timeframe
********* = $25.00 per page (8.3 cents a word)
Papermasters = $20.95 per page (11.9 cents a word still)

1 day delivery
********* = $34.00 per page (11.3 cents a word)
Papermasters = 27.95 per page (11.1 cents a word)

Less than 1 day
********* = $38.00 per page (12.7 cents a word)
Papermasters = $27.95 per page (11.1 cents a word)

When one does the math, it's pretty easy to see that, depending upon the deadline, one can pay more or less per word with either company. If it's a rush, customers will pay less per word with papermasters even with the font difference.

Frankly, you should stop making claims like "false" about Papermasters when you don't bother to use the actual prices. It does make you look like you are chilling for ********* when you don't quote Papermasters and ********* accurately in a comparison.

And, I can see many reasons to prefer Papermasters besides the font difference - like the fact that Papermasters doesn't put limitations on paper size for timing while ********* does or the fact that Papermasters doesn't charge customers before finding them a writer whereas ********* will automatically charge a customer upon receiving the order even if they don't have a writer ready.

And, you still haven't yet disproven my central point. A font choice does not automatically make any company illegitimate. You have yourself praised Papermasters for their quality and service.

And, the claim that the 300 words is a better value than 250 words is erroneous. Quality depends on the writer, not the word count. It's easy to add a bunch of fluff that does nothing to improve the quality of a project. I produce high quality copy whether I am writing 250 or 300 words a page.

And, this issue goes beyond simply these two companies. Some companies, like Philadelphia, allow customers to choose between fonts and they vary their prices accordingly. Surely, you wouldn't call them illegit for doing so.

But, as one of your larger supporters on this board against accusations, I do personally find it disappointing that you bring ********* in this discussion when you could have easily chosen a different company to "promote" as legit.

Lavinia, you have crossed a line. You have made this personal. That's a shame--I thought you were above that.

Do you deny that my thread SPECIFICALLY addressed sites form Ukraine and Pakistan?

Do you deny that I did NOT state that a low word count means "automatic fraud"?

Do you deny that it was YOU who decided to name PaperMasters?

Do you deny that YOU have also referenced ********* as a legitimate site?

Do you deny that me comparing two sites that we have BOTH referred to as "legitimate" is a normal step?

My comparisons are based on the STANDARD service of each site, with allother factors assumed equal), so I am, indeed, both correct and accurate. For you to suggest otherwise is irresponsible and makes YOU seem like a shill for PaperMasters.

Come on WB, the first "personal" comment was your assertion that I am employed by both companies.


That comment was CLEARLY personal and had ZERO to do with the content of the discussion. I politely disagreed with you and you went off and tried to make this personal. I am quite capable of letting the data speak for itself, which is why I took the time to provide such extensive pricing information.

So please don't try to play the victim. Bullying tactics won't work on me.


Yes, your comments were vague enough to leave room for doubt. Particularly when your bottom line doesn't mention foreign rip off sites:


That's your conclusion and it doesn't mention Pakistan or Ukraine. If you have bothered to be specific, I wouldn't have wasted my time posting.


You said:


But this is false. You've admitted that Papermasters IS legit but they do not provide 300 words.


Duh, of course I did. To disprove your statement. See above.


Have I? I don't believe that I have. I believe that I pointed out that YOU called them legit and, in the past, I've accepted your word for that. Perhaps you can provide some quotes to explain what you mean. But this strikes me as having nothing to do with the topic.


I don't know what you mean by normal and this strikes me as just as silly filler question. You didn't have to compare ********* and Papermasters in such a way as to endorse ********* over Papermasters, particularly when, in the past, you've endorsed both as legit.

You chose to make ********* out to be the superior site using limited data, why is that exactly?


Oh please. You included one set of prices. Your data set was woefully inadequate to prove your point and, as I demonstrated, additional information shows that Papermasters can be cheaper per word than *********. Just give it up already.

Besides, why would I shill for Papermasters? You've already asserted that I work for both.

I made no comment. I asked a question.


How in the bloody hell is that personal? I asked the question simply to confirm that you are familiar with the inner workings of both sites--nothing more, nothing less. It is also the main reason why I chose to compare Paper Masters and *********. If you took my question as some sort of insult or personal attack, I apologize.


You're wrong. Ask the owner of ANY essay site and he/she will readily admit that his/her site's standard service (cheapest writing service) receives, by far, the most orders. Ask any 10 companies you wish and report the results here.

Again, all other factors being equal, a site that provides more words per page is a better value for the customer. That is irrefutable.

You claim to not be a writer or an owner of a company, so your position is based on what evidence exactly?

I can speak from experience as a writer. The vast majority of work that I take at the undergraduate level falls within a 3 day deadline (not the cheapest service available). If graduate, that's different, but we haven't discussed graduate level work prices between the different fonts yet - if you want to do the math, go for it, but I expect that graduate prices will mirror undergraduate prices and that word value will vary depending upon deadline.


That's simply not true. I did the math above to demonstrate a couple of examples. If one is simply comparing price between Papermasters (Courier New) versus ********* (Times New), one will pay more per word with Papermasters for any order within a one day deadline, All Other Factors Being Equal. This is true also for less than one day. Irrefutable.

Look, I just wrote a five page essay today in Times New Roman. When I finished it, it was 1723 words. I went back and revised, removing about 100 words. Does that mean that the client received a less valuable product because the essay was 100 words less after revisions? Of course not.

I have never claimed to "not be a writer." I've claimed the exact opposite. What I have stated is that I do not write for essay sites.

As for the basis of my position, have you seen my investigations in other threads? Do you think I accomplish all of that without having talked to the owners of legitimate sites to get their 2c every now and then? I have also studied the fee schedule of every site that I have ever investigated, which constitutes dozens upon dozens of sites from many different companies. Furthermore, I have communicated with hundreds of essay site customers through this and other forums, many times addressing customers' dissatisfaction after being misled or outright deceived by sites' advertised words per page (or lack thereof) and/or "page" definition (or lack thereof).

If you really feel the need to prove wrong my assertion that a site's most commonly-ordered service is its standard (or cheapest) service, all you have to do is survey 10 or so different companies of your choice and report your findings.

"all things being equal" = price, quality, coherence, etc.


That's irrelevant. Did the client pay for 1,500, 1,600, or 1,700 words? You're getting into something completely different.

SCENARIO A:
For the heck of it, let's say that ********* and PaperMasters suddenly have the exact same prices, across the board. A customer orders a "10-page essay" (with precisely the same topic and specs) at both ********* and PaperMasters, using each site's standard/cheapest service. The customer requests YOU, Lavinia, by name. For the ********* order, you write 10 pages in Times New Roman font. For the PaperMasters order, you write 10 pages in Courier New font. Which paper contains more words?

SCENARIO B:
Take the most perfect essay that you have ever written. Let's assume that it's fairly lengthy. You paste that essay into a blank, MS Word document using Times New Roman font. You then paste the exact same essay into a blank, MS Word document using Courier New font. Which document has a higher page-count?

Right, you say you're not a writer for or an owner of a company. Are you employed in any way by an essay site?

You're making an assertion about what services are most popular. Period. I'm not going to do the work to disprove your assertion - if you want someone to believe your assertion, then you should be willing to do the work to prove it. In fact, you frequently criticize others for not providing proof to back up their claims:


This site is littered with comments by you demanding proof to support people's comments. It's your turn to follow your own advice and prove your assertion or give it up already.

But I'll offer you what I think is a fair alternative. You post 10 companies that you know your statement is true for and I'll check with their owners and see if you're correct. Fair?


They paid for 5 pages. I had discretion on the word count as I often do. My point is simple - word count does not equal quality and that example proves it. In fact, if you are a professional writer, then you should understand that it is more difficult to write in a concise manner than it is to add fluff and padding to make a project longer.

Scenario A is irrelevent. Making up situations that will never happen to prove a point is a weak form of argument. I won't bother to make one up to prove my point because I have actual data drawn from reality.

Scenario B is also irrelevent because of the price data given above. The price of a paper is determined by a lot of different factors beyond words, the most important being TIME but also things like LEVEL of difficulty and SUBJECT CONTENT. I charge more for graduate level chemistry papers than I do undergrad book reviews, regardless of font or word count.

Look, you've conceded this multiple times and seem to want to make it go away by pretending that I didn't type it:

"1 day delivery
********* = $34.00 per page (11.3 cents a word)
Papermasters = 27.95 per page (11.1 cents a word)

Less than 1 day
********* = $38.00 per page (12.7 cents a word)
Papermasters = $27.95 per page (11.1 cents a word)

When one does the math, it's pretty easy to see that, depending upon the deadline, one can pay more or less per word with either company. If it's a rush, customers will pay less per word with papermasters even with the font difference."

The question is how else to price an essay like no by a word-count. From what I know professors ask students to write a X-page paper (or Y words) on a topic. Due to different fonts/margin settings professors now tend to use word-count rather than page-count.

If buyers are smart they should look at how many words per page a company offers and then order less pages (and pay less with companies that offer more words per page). That's a general idea, but different companies have different pricing structure. Rush or regular order is an important factor here too.

Lavinia, it's a pretty sad day when you decide that your time is better spent attacking my attempt to inform customers of critical information than attacking any of the known fraudsters. Why the sudden turn against me? It would be pretty irresponsible of me to start asking loaded questions, wouldn't it? If you have an accusation to make, make it! Don't beat around the bush like the crooks. You're stooping pretty low by asking loaded questions that you know damn well I have already answered 100 times.

I proved you wrong with the scenarios and you know it. Answer my two scenario questions straight up, without any bulls-i* spin. They are pretty simple questions.

I don't NEED to post evidence for this particular situation. I've paid my dues. I've proven countless times that I know my stuff. And you're damn right that I demand evidence from others. Look at all of my other investigations. I don't need validation from you. You want to claim that I'm wrong in this matter? Step up to the plate and PROVE it, or "drop it already."

Lavinia, you seem to think that YOUR limited pricing points are valid, but mine are not. Why is that? Why are you focused ONLY on URGENT pricing points when any site owner will tell you that 1-day (or quicker) orders are only a small percentage of total orders? Are you actually suggesting that the majority of orders are for URGENT service? Give me a break . . . . My assertion that most orders are for STANDARD service is much more valid than yours, yet you claim mine to be invalid. You'd have people believe that the average customer orders URGENT service--good luck with that. Again, since your assertion is clearly more far-fetched than mine, YOU do the work. I'm always the one to spend the time--YOUR turn.


Have you never heard of an "apples-to-apples" comparison? You keep wanting to throw in all sorts of ridiculous variables because that is the only way you can avoid admitting that I'm correct.

A customer orders the exact same, "10-page" essay from two sites. SITE A provides 300 words per page. SITE B provides 225 words per page.

same writer
same topic
same specs
same price

Through which site does the customer receive a better value for his/her money? (Remember, all factors are EXACTLY THE SAME, except for the number of words per page.)

Lavinia, I'm surprised that you have also falsified data.


$27.95 / 250 words per page = 11.2 cents per word (not 11.1)

Unlike you, I'm going to assume good will and chalk it up to an honest mistake.

Good publicity for papermasters and *********...ha...ha....!!!

This has nothing to do with you. Stop personalizing. I have generally agreed with you on this board and defended you multiple times. On this point, we disagree. I would disagree with anyone posting the same thing you did. Since I have actually defended your bullying in the past because I thought that you generally have good intentions, I foolishly thought that we could have a civil conversation but every post by you is a new, more erratic RANT.

Your first post was vague and irresponsible and your attack on Papermasters in subsequent posts has been flawed. Your suggestions that I am hiding something, rather than simply disagreeing with you, are childish. Grow up and learn that adults don't always agree and that everything isn't about YOU.


Ok, this is about you lol. That stance makes you a hypocrite. No one gets to suddenly decide that they've done enough to no longer have to provide evidence to back their arguments. Readers aren't simply going to believe a post by you simply because you posted it.

And frankly your refusal to provide evidence or to discuss this rationally is what gives me, someone who has been one of your supporters, cause for concern.


What's limited about my prices? I looked at several data sets; you looked at one. In some cases, Papermasters is more expensive. In other cases, ********* is more expensive. You're the one equating a font with automatic fraud, a significant and irresponsible leap in logic.


I'm not focused only on urgent pricing points. I included non-urgent prices as well. Can you not see that in my post? Was that not clear enough for you?You're the one choosing to only focus on one set of prices and trying to pretend that they're the only one that matters.

So, it's any site now, huh? You going to actually name some sites to provide evidence or are you going to keep making unevidenced assertions? What's wrong with my fair offer? You say 10 sites and I'll check them out. I'm not so emotionally invested in this board that I won't admit that I'm wrong about something. How about you?


Nope. I'm simply pointing out that you have zero evidence for your assertion. None. But you want all readers to believe it anyway. No thanks. I like my beliefs to be substantiated by evidence. I thought you felt the same.


I didn't make that assertion. Learn how to read. I simply pointed out that I don't believe you have the evidence to support your claim. And then I shared my own personal experience, which contradicts your assertion. I work in the industry and apparently you don't, so I am going to value my experience over your none until you give me a reason to think otherwise.

And since you refuse to provide any evidence... I still think I'm right.


Now this is just silly. If you have posted this in the first post, I wouldn't have gotten involved. Of course this is the case.

But that's not what you posted in your first post. Half of your first post talks about font and the other half talks about fraud sites being cheaper than legit sites. Very different points. But I'm glad to see that you are moving away from the flawed claims in your original post.

And timing is now a "silly variable"?? Instead of, say, one of the most important factors determining a project's price?? Really??? Hmm...


Comments like that make you an obnoxious jerk, you know that? I mean seriously. Are you just incapable of civil disagreement? Too much California koolaid and not enough valley wine?


I realize that you don't have a math background but you should still probably be aware that there are multiple ways to round. So long as the system is consistent, it's generally considered legit. I was doing the math quickly and I rounded everything to odd numbers, except perfect zeroes (take a look at my post and look at all the numbers).

If I had done traditional rounding, then the 8.3 cents I assigned to ********* in the 3-4 day category would have actually been 8.4. See? The error evens out. Just like it would have if I had used the simple 5 rounding that you seem to want to use.

And it's not like 11.1 or 11.2 changes my point, which is that the courier new font pricing is the better per word pricing for customers in that case. I could have just made it 11 cents and 13 cents a word, same point and the gap would have been bigger in favor of Papermasters (since you want to accuse me of defending them), but since I'm not biased, I thought 1 decimal place would be fairer to both companies. And I picked odd numbers because the data seemed to support that and it was easy to do. I expect math folks (even EW who has no reason to agree with me) can acknowledge that this rounding isn't crazy.

And that's why your suggestion that I "falsified data" makes you an obnoxious jerk. Seriously. The 11.1 could have been a typo or an honest math error or something else, but you go for the cheap shot anyway.

My original post was civil and even deferential:


We could have talked this out but instead you've consistently dragged this into the sewer. Your comment about giving me the benefit of the doubt would have been thoughtful and been well received by me if you hadn't felt the need to try to use the "falsified data" potshot. I'm not going to bother to be civil when you refuse to contain your childish ranting and accusations.

I'm not lying. I have no reason to lie. I've been on this board for over a year, made plenty of posts, and never once been accused of being connected to a particular company. I'm not making wild accusations. I'm simply pointing out that your blanket accusations aren't true.

To sum up:

A font choice does not automatically make a company a fraud. Customers should review prices and comparison shop if they want the best deal.

Happy Thanksgiving to the U.S. readers (and insert an appropriate holiday if you live elsewhere)!


B96 gets it! (Is that name a Chicago radio station reference, btw?)

Lavinia, apparently it is YOU who needs to "learn how to read" (nice insults, by the way).


It is also YOU who engages in name-calling, like a child who doesn't get his/her way. Sad.

I word my third scenario in a SLIGHTLY different way, and suddenly you agree with it? How convenient! You simply took the opportunity to agree with my THIRD scenario so that you wouldn't have to admit that my previous scenarios are perfectly valid and you overstepped by claiming otherwise.


You're right--hiding the number of words per page accomplishes that!

Next time, don't mention a site by name if you don't want scrutiny to take place. You crossed that bridge, not me. You started with underhanded accusations, not me.

I have better things to do than to entertain your senseless grudge and childish outbursts. I'll get back to actually making a DIFFERENCE for people.


Yes, B96 does get it! However, that's pretty hard to do when the company intentionally does not divulge the number of words per page that it provides, not even on its order form! THAT is my point. Some sites depend on customers comparing their lower "price per PAGE" against other sites' higher "price per page," without realizing that the site with the lower prices probably provides significantly fewer words per page.

I know why Lavinia is angry with you - look at your statement above which assumes that if a company doesn't offer 300+ words per page it is not "legitimate."

Well, Lavinia has no reason to be "angry" with me. She doesn't own or operate a site. She didn't have to attack me, personally. Unlike her, after she attacked me first, I was the bigger person and apologized for what she wrongfully perceived as an insult. I then also gave her the benefit of the doubt when she posted incorrect figures (11.18 does not round down to 11.1). Did she ever apologize for her aggressiveness or simply let things boil over? Nope--she went right back to name-calling and underhanded accusations.

There are many different types of fraud. Some types are more obvious and blatant than others. I believe that it is intentionally deceptive--if not fraudulent--for a site owner to not divulge how many words he/she provides per page. Anyone who runs an essay business knows perfectly well that it is a proper, moral, ethical step towards being honest with prospective clients. Anything short of full disclosure is dishonest, especially when the lack of disclosure involves such a critical aspect of the service.

Lavinia

Sorry you had to become the victim of WB's bullying in order to be able to acknowledge that SOMETIMES WB gets it wrong. Nice of you to acknowledge that the way she goes on IS a form of bullying.

I have read this forum regularly and have often thought that it was wrong of WB to attack posters in the way she has, but never thought she would turn her attack on you. I doubt you will get a retraction judging by previous posts and comments from WB- it appears to me that SORRY is just not in her word vocabulary.

As an exwriter of an essay company I can vouch for the comments you have made that the urgency of the paper impacts on the price. It was also highlighted by a customer in another thread how UKessays have several sites and how the price varies tremendously between the sites despite the fact that the customer will still be getting the same bank of writers and the same number of words per page. UKessays are exploiting those who do not do their homework and check to see who owns/runs these sites. If students become more astute they can do the price comparisons for themselves, but should bear in mind that sometimes going for the cheap option can result in reduced quaility.

Anyway Lavinia, thanks for trying to be the voice of reason in this matter and try to rise above the childish responses of WB. I fully expect to be the next target of her attack for offering you support as is usual with WB, so I will choose in advance to rise above this and ignore the personal comments I feel will be imminent.

Enjoy the long post! This is fun!


Not quite. I engage in name-calling when an individual attempts to impugn me. You accused me of falsifying data, a point that you have since dropped b/c you know it was simply untrue and demonstrated how committed you are to always looking correct, even if it means insulting those who disagree with you. I take insults against my personal integrity very seriously, something that you should know about me from past discussions. You and I have had a generally cordial relationship on this forum but you used your same bullying tactics against me. My first two posts were polite and you made this personal, not me.

And again with the hypocrisy. Anyone can do a quick search of this forum to find your list of favorite pet insults. I'm just waiting for you to offer me a banana and then I will die of laughter.


Do you just not bother to read parts of my posts? I answered this:


All you had to do was be clear in acknowledging that font size might suggest a fraud but does not necessarily mean that a company is a fraud.

And then you say...


Ok, that's funny. Another example of your uncharitable attitude that always assumes the worst. Are you conveniently forgetting that you have PRAISED Papermasters as not only a legit site but one that will produce SUPERB (Your word, not mine)work - going so far as to offer to pay people if they receive an inferior product? I'll requote you to help your memory:


Anyone who can do basic math can see that a higher word count page does not necessarily lead to a greater value because of the price differences per page.

And then there is this:


That's just silly. I have no problem with you making a legitimate argument against Papermasters or any other company. I'm sure other people have made negative comments about Papermasters that I didn't bother to answer. However, your claims were so blatantly false and contradictory of your past praise of Papermasters that I decided to post.

Have you stopped to think why I mentioned Papermasters name? I didn't initially b/c I don't drop names on this forum as a rule. However, you suggested that you knew who I was thinking of and that you considered them fraudulent. I then said Papermasters b/c you had previously established them to be legit. I expected you to acknowledge that there could be some exceptions and then we'd all move on, but you went on the offensive instead. That totally surprised me. I'm not promoting them. I'm simply pointing out your comments to be inconsistent.

Oh, btw, I don't pretend to be an expert on Papermasters or anyone else, but I just looked at their site and found where they give a word count. If you're really the expert you claim to be, you should have found that word count as well and that would have stopped you from writing:


Oops! Do you want me to post the link to their word count information or do you want to go find it yourself? I would work out the math based upon the number of words on Papermasters' site to compare prices, but I think folks can do that for thermselves. I just don't believe that you even bothered to look at Papermasters site during this discussion - You just seem hell bent on promoting ********* - to the point that you are promoting exactly the same selling point about word count that is found so prominently on their website.

Some comparing yields:

*********'s website says:
"You should also avoid sites that provide only 225 words per page. We write 300 words on every page!"

WB says:
Legitimate companies in the United States provide 300+ words per page, written by QUALIFIED writers like me, which is a much better value.

********* says:
If you need a 3,000-word paper, you would have to pay for 13 pages at any of our competitors' sites because they type only 225 words per page.

WB say:
A customer orders the exact same, "10-page" essay from two sites. SITE A provides 300 words per page. SITE B provides 225 words per page.

Seriously, it's like your paraphrasing their website information. It's horrible WB. I honestly want to believe that you don't work for them b/c if you do, then I look like an idiot for defending you in the past, but your comments on this thread make it look otherwise. And I'm not saying that to insult or attack you but to say, as someone who has defended you and generally respect your contributions if not your tone and tendency to jump to conclusions, that your current behavior makes you LOOK like you work for them.

I did find this comment interesting on their site though:

"Our sneaky competitors use the much larger Courier New Font, which means that *********.com provides MORE text per "page," and a far better value for your hard-earned dollar"

WB, don't you find this comment by ********* to be intentionally misleading, since there are many legit American competitors who do not use Courier New Font and instead use Times New Roman and the same 300 word guarantee? Clearly, ********* needs to rewrite the text on their sites so they don't mislead potential customers. Maybe we should start a new thread devoted to pointing out misleading information on company websites.

Edit: I just removed a bunch of content and softened the language in my post. Consider it my olive branch, if you wish. My point's made and I really don't want to keep going in circles with you WB.

PS - Thank you for the kind words Ex. Maybe now people won't accuse WB and I of being the same person lol.

Your more than welcome, that was a thoroughly undeserved personal attack just because you opted not to agree with her on this occasion.

Well if you are one and the same you must be the alter ego- the kinder, gentler, more compassionate side, you certainly do not attack people with the same venom as a certain other person.

exwriter, I suggest that you actually read the thread from the start to see who started the attacks. It was Lavinia, not me.


Wow--I take it that you didn't bother to read the thread AT ALL before commenting? I immediately apologized once I understood WHY Lavinia had decided to attack me, personally:


As for Lavinia's faulty numbers:


So exwriter, do you have any other FALSE ACCUSATIONS and completely unprovoked, PERSONAL ATTACKS to offer? Do you offer apologies when proved wrong?

Yes I certainly do offer apologies when proven wrong, however, your ALLEGED apology

WritersBeware:
If you took my question as some sort of insult or personal attack, I apologize.

loses any credibility when you then resort back to personal attacks on Lavinia JUST because she does not stand behind you on this issue cheering you along.

Why do you have to always have the last word on every matter. Are you so shallow that you cannot allow others to disagree with you without resorting to personal attacks.

In my line of work I have come across many people who do not share the same views etc as myself and although I might consider them to be wrong I accept their right to hold a different opinion to me and WOULD NEVER resort to making personal attacks on them JUST because they did not agree with me. In this instances the content of your post suggested that companies using larger font size were fraudulent as they produce less words per page, in my experience most students order per 1000 words and most companies will base their quote on the number of words requested.

One shady practice operated by UKessays, which I should have an email from them to back up, is to include the question to be answered as part of the word count. When I used to write for them I once queried the word count as I was told that my work had exceeded the required number of words. I told admin that I had written 2500 words and they stated that the actual word count was 3125. I asked at how they arrived at this figure and they stated that the essay question was included in the word count. Apparently, according to the person I communicated with, when a student requests a paper they are asked how many words they require and are told that they must include the question as part of that word count. This essentially means that the student will be charged more if the essay is a problem question as often the problem itself can be over 1000 words in length. I don't know if this is still happening with UKessays but it was certainly the policy when I used to write for them.

Dude, I'm not going to entertain you any further. You're making a fool of yourself. Try actually READING the sequence of events before posting again.


First of all, your math WAS wrong. You even ACKNOWLEDGED the "error." So please don't come off as if I falsely accused you of anything. You can try to spin it any way you like. It doesn't take a math professor to figure out that 11.18 does not round down to 11.1, under any circumstances. (perhaps, my use of the word "falsified" carries connotations that I did not truly mean to communicate.) Regardless, I clearly stated that I assumed it was an HONEST MISTAKE! Secondly, how do you explain your underhanded accusations--in the form of questions--BEFORE I ever mentioned your figures?


Again, why the ardent support of Papermasters? My previous praise for the WRITING of Papermasters has absolutely NOTHING to do with the FACT that I have SINCE discovered that Papermasters does NOT clearly divulge to customers how many words it provides per page. Is that an honest practice?


I don't have to "stop and think" about your faulty assumption. Did it not occur to YOU to simply send me a PRIVATE MESSAGE to ask for clarification before jumping off the deep end? For you to just ASSUME that I was referring to Paper masters is ridiculous. You do know that there are literally thousands of essay sites, right? For your information, I was absolutely NOT referring to Papermasters, and if you care to know what company I was referring to, I will be glad to tell you via PM.


The fact that I manually searched through the site and could not find the information is more than adequate to prove my point. If I couldn't find it, do you think the average customer can? I take it that you found the page by using either a microscope or conducting the following type of search?

google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Apapermasters.com+%22words+per+p age%22

The search result provides papermasters/term-paper-specifications.html. Fine. You want to depend on that page?

1. That page is not linked from the Papermasters home page. It is not linked from the Paper masters order form. So, how does the average customer easily find this page without having to be an SEO expert? Such critical information should up-front and clear. Do you not agree?

2. Papermasters states on that hard-to-find page that it provides only 230 words per page. So, that throws off your figures. Your figures are based on Papermasters providing 250 words per page.

$27.95 / 230 = 12.2 cents per word


AGAIN, my past comments about Papermasters have NOTHING to do with word-count. Plus, at the time I made those comments, I had overlooked in my investigations the fact that Papermasters does not divulge words-per-page information where the average customer can easily see/find it. It took--just now--a complicated Google search to locate the page!


More false accusations. Are you just going to steal all of the crooks' other false accusations, too?


COME ON! That's where I found the information! No s-i* the info that I posted is similar! Your point? Or should I type, "Your false accusation?"


That's a load of garbage! How in the hell do you think I got the pricing information from Papermasters? A lucky guess? Your false accusations against me are becoming plain silly. I visited and studied the pricing of both sites before posting the thread. As I have clearly explained numerous times, I chose what I believe to be the most commonly-ordered package offered by each site, simply because the cheapest package is more affordable to the majority of students. Are you going to deny that "assumption," too? There is absolutely nothing outlandish or biased about that assumption.


I agree that their statement should certainly be re-worded, at least. If you want to contact them about changing it, be my guest. If I do it and the statement on their site changes, I get labeled as the owner.


Well, between the two of us, this is the third olive branch, so I hope that's enough to end the bickering and focus on protecting consumers.

What are you talking about? I didn't attack you personally until you accused me of falsifying data. If you're talking about my "chilling" comment (my typo cracks me up), I think you need to reread it. I certainly didn't intend for it to be an insult but rather an honest observation by someone who has generally supported you on this board. Your words clearly echo *********'s website talking points. It looks terrible to read these posts and then go look at their website. You use the exact same word count for Courier New and Times and the same language used in their site promotions. Even those of us who generally agree with you aren't blind.

And frankly, this statement is incorrect:

You apologized and then my next post is:


Where is the personal attack there? Or in my next post after that?
Oh that's right. None. I didn't insult you, despite your claims to the contrary.

But your next set of posts include these gems:

You still want to try to claim that it's all me throwing insults? That you're the victim of my aggression?

Have you found Paper masters' word count information on their website yet? Or you are going to keep accusing them of deceiving customers just b/c you can't find the information on their site?

Well, I guess you're not done

I have read the sequence of events and still stand by my assertion that it is ungamely of you to make personal attacks on someone just because they do not agree with you on every matter. Note your personal attack on me for offering support to Lavinia.

I have no axe to grind with either of you and as you will note from the content of my posts on here nearly all my posts have centred on exposing the way in which ukessays treat customers and writers. Given that this is the only company I have ever written for I cannot comment on the fraudulent practices of other companies although I am aware of their fraudulent behaviour.

I agree that this site should be devoted to protecting consumers AND writers, however, your original post here was flawed in that you averred that any site that does not offer 300+ words per page is ripping consumers off. That is clearly not true especially in the UK where the sites charges per 1000 words as opposed to per page. Maybe essay writing companies should take this onboard and ALL charge per 1000 words that way a TRUE price comparison can be easily made by all those seeking to use such services.

Let me introduce you to some EVIDENCE. Lavinia made the following comments BEFORE I posted anything that was meant as a personal attack:

This is not a British forum.


LMAO! Seriously, do you have memory issues? This is a sincere question, because you have clearly forgotten about your FIRST post on the matter:

You don't remember your unprovoked tirade of false accusations concerning my ability to apologize? I stand by my previous assertion that you are making a fool of yourself.

Frankly, these matters between Lavinia and me should have been addressed via private messages. I'd appreciate it if you would stop throwing fuel on the fire.

I have no clue what you are talking about. None. I asked questions to get information. I wanted to know what you are basing your statements on, no more, no less. You brought up things like your "extensive academic background" and I wanted to know what that meant b/c our views clearly differ despite our seemingly similar backgrounds.

I don't use PM's through this forum. I was under the impression that they were frequently broken/don't work.

And you misunderstand me here. I assumed that you weren't thinking of papermasters, which is why I said what I did - - which is why, as I explained, I expected you to just accept them as an exception and move on.


Um... no... it is directly linked from the site. Here for example:
papermasters.com/undergraduate-term-paper.html. It's pretty easy to find, actually.


lol that was funny. But seriously, the word count information is not that difficult to find, and is linked within the site as I showed above, so when you claim that you searched all through the site and couldn't find it, I do get skeptical. My comment was specific to that discussion.


Now I'm sad again. I don't think you've made this argument before. Honestly, I've lost interest in it b/c the argument doesn't matter - your first post said all legit companies use times new roman while frauds use courier new. I pointed out that you were wrong and you seem to have mostly retracted that position. So why does the most common package matter anymore?


This is true but applies only to my figures, not to the final conclusion. In rush, Papermasters still ends up cheaper per word even with the 230 word count, right?

WB, I don't understand how you think some of the questions are insults.

Question 1 - That was my annoyance at your sloppy google search. If that's an insult, so be it, but it was sloppy. You attempted to use a google search to prove that Times New Roman is the standard academic font with a search that included links that argue against your point - that shows me that you really didn't bother to look things up but instead just quickly did the search and the link. I took the time from my life to actually read the sites on the search to try to see where you were coming from and found sites that contradicted your position - as I linked.

Question 2 - That was checking for clarification. Not an insult.

Question 3 - Asked in earnest, already noted. I know you have a PhD in English but that's it. I was wondering if you were referring to that or something else. I offered personal information about myself (you know that I teach, etc) and it didn't seem too much for me to ask you as well. Seriously, you think that's an insult?

Question 4 - Already explained. You have made erroneous comments about Papermasters that I've pointed out. My pointing out your errors isn't an insult. It's not like I said you "falsified" data to make your point, which not only points out an error but assigns a specific intent to deceive.

It is not EXCLUSIVELY an American forum either -or am I mistaken?


I was merely making an observation- based on FACT- that you RARELY if EVER apologise for personal comments and attacks made on other posters. I could post MANY examples where this has been the case and VERY FEW examples where you have EVER apologised to anyone.

It was actually Lavinia that accused you of BULLYING- not me- I was merely agreeing with her and confirming that I to have witnessed the way in which you have bullied other posters on here.


Maybe I should be as rude as you and ask if you have ACTUALLY read the posts I have made on here but I refuse to stoop to your level and prefer to rise above your continued personal attacks on anyone that dares to challenge you.

Yes, it is "linked from the site," but from how many levels down? Three? Four? That critical information should be plastered on the home page, not linked from a secondary or tertiary page that is absolutely NOT easy for the average customer to find. At the very least, shouldn't it be on the order form somewhere?

Bottom line--I didn't start this thread with the intention of involving specific sites. You mentioned Paper masters. I then used ********* as a comparison point simply because I thought you had mentioned that you write for both companies and are familiar with the inner workings of both.

Unfortunately, I can't edit my first post. Alas, the thread has been ruined.

exwriter, you're wrong, and I have no inclination to communicate with you further. This is between me and Lavinia.

Hmm and I am wrong because you say I am wrong huh. I don't think so!!

You know FULL well that there are very few examples on here when you have apologised to anyone.

You also know that there are many examples of your posts that can be regarded as bullying and there is no need to post the links as there are so many examples.

Face facts - when someone disagrees with them you are often rude and offensive to them. You make personal attacks rather than stick to your original post and try to belittle people. In my book that makes you a bully and Lavinia has clearly stated that she has defended you in the past when you have bullied others- see the quote above.


I guess this means you would edit it if you could. Does this mean you have now realised that your original post was flawed?

Those are crickets . . . .


Whatever--I guess I'll just revert to claiming that I can't imagine how YOU could have perceived my question as an insult. I should also take back my apology for what you perceived to be an insult. This is a joke of a witch-hunt. Yes, and I'm the one who purportedly never apologizes and always needs to have the last word.

I guess you can choose to ignore the truth if you wish like an ostrich burying its head in the sand- it doesn't mean that the truth will go away!

Reality check - you can ignore me all you like but others will probably read my posts and be sat there nodding agreement, and you know that this will be the case given that you have made so many attacks on posters on here.

I've helped more people than you could imagine. I'd go so far as to say that my investigations have contributed to changes in the industry itself. What contribution have YOU made to this forum, besides attacking me? Your posts truly serve no purpose. Be gone. Go open a myspace page.