Thanks. Go ahead and send me your journals-database log-in and password. That would be a big help.

Do you know how much Emerald might cost if I order it myself?

I could have done that for a deep discount, only $150 a page.

People who can write a decent essay of any sort are rare enough. People who can produce actual legal research and mold it into a good paper? Good luck. If I'm not mistaken, freelancerwriter on this forum has a law degree and yet still does not tackle just any legal paper that comes his way. Unless the UK is quite different from the U.S., there just aren't tons of qualified legal writers sitting around waiting for your order.

An ancient thread, I know, but I will comment anyway. I would say that the number one problem for anyone starting an essay company -- and for any student seeking an essay writer -- is finding writing talent. The IT and customer service functions are important, but even the best back-end systems in the world can't write you a decent essay. The number of people who can produce high-quality essays day in and day out is tiny. Meanwhile, the companies will constantly be barraged by applications from very poor writers seeking work. The standout writers might work for companies for a time, but eventually they will end up picking up their own clients and making more money than the companies can pay them.

If you can run a company and maintain even a semi-competent stable of writers for any amount of time, then you have my respect. I have concluded that demand for good writers is very, very high and supply is vanishingly small. And that is the core of why it's hard to start a successful company in this industry.

So as for Emerald and Questia, how would I get access? How much would it cost?

Please quote one example of me saying anything about Africans. I only talked about unqualified writers. If you read that as "Africans," then that's your racism, not mine.

In my experience, good writers get good rates. Writers who advertise low prices are doing so for a reason -- they can't compete based on quality. I've been told several times lately, by other writers and (believe it or not) by students, that my rates are a little low. I've been thinking about increasing them.

Yes, I think we do. Thank you, Captain Obvious.

If you want someone to say that essay writing is upstanding work, you might be out of luck. It's amoral. It's just a question of whether it bothers you or not. More specifically, if it does bother you, it's a question of whether the money outweighs that. Can you sleep at night knowing that you're chipping away at the ivory tower?

I meant inefficient.


Do you mean a new company, or a new writer? I entered the market only this year and I have so much work that I hardly get any sleep, and I have to hand some assignments off to other writers. And I've never done a single assignment for a company; it's all private work. But that's just my little corner of the market and the world, and I wanted to see what others are experiencing.

Several points:

-Not all companies use ESL writers. And in case anyone thinks I am biased, no, I do not work for any academic essay company, in any capacity. I do believe that some companies consistently turn out native-standard papers.

-I agree that many companies are producing absolute dreck that should get a 0 percent if it were submitted at any university. I've seen some of this stuff. In many cases it's ESL, but sometimes native writers write trash, too.

-The students don't necessarily know the workings of the industry and do not understand the type of product they're likely to receive. The expect to get a good paper.

-Some students don't mind that non-native writers work on their papers, as long as the research, structure, and ideas are strong, because the students are ESL themselves. A native-quality paper is not in their best interests.

I think it's best to find your own clients and then fill in any holes in your schedule with work for companies. Of course, finding the clients is often the difficult part. There are some good methods, but I don't think the vast majority of writers know how to go about it. And the ones who do, don't say much about it.

In certain countries, test-prep cram schools have figured out how to beat SAT and other tests. The pore over old exams, drill on the questions, teach students the patterns and principles for coming up with the right answers.

How would that even be possible?

It refers to a fanciful image: a sort of small city, wherein the inhabitants would write various model academic papers for all the diligent university students in, presumably, the neighboring municipalities. Kind of like Santa's workshop, except for homework. (And their "Santa" uses a lot more profanity and makes a lot more demands for so-called evidence.)

What is the point in holding this type of conversation here? Presumably this is a place where writers talk about writing, and students stop by to look for writers. If I were a student, I would choose someone who keeps the discussion above-board.

Nice try, Helen.

JohnsMom: I'm not sure I follow your logic that the U.S./UK companies would cut pay rates. Imagine that you run a company. (For all I know, maybe you do.) If you are based in the U.S. and your game plan is to provide high quality, earn repeat business, and generally operate a reputable company, then you need native speakers or, at the very least, near-native speakers, all of whom must be quite proficient at research and writing. This type of writer is in limited supply. The fact that there is a flood of non-native, poor-quality writers really doesn't affect your equation at all. You could hire them for cheap, but they would be a detriment, not a benefit, to your business. You have to pay a premium to get the good writers. Writers who can do what is needed to make your business successful are somewhat hard to find, because such people have other options in life. On the other hand, if you want lousy writers for $2 a page, the world is your oyster. Just don't count on satisfied customers.

Top writers take on few clients but charge higher prices. People who don't write so well have to deal in volume.

I don't think that native writers are in any danger, except maybe at the bottom of the barrel.

Have you ever seen some of the essays produced by the essay mills who employ loads and load of non-native writers? I have. Complete trash, not even gradable by the professor. I don't know who their customer is, to be honest. Maybe I only saw the worst of the worst, but I don't think so.

If the plagiarism somehow harmed their budget, or especially if it negatively affected administrators' salaries, the problem would be fixed tomorrow.

To the contrary, the international students are lucrative. The more the better. Consequently, they're "helpless" to stop the plagiarism.

Several issues.

-Some students are inadequate in English language.

-Some could do the work, but it takes them much longer.

-Many of them take very heavy coursework loads.

-Many of them come from privileged backgrounds, and buying their way through feels natural.

-Many are majoring in math/science or business, so they aren't "language people" in the first place.

-The schools have not mastered ways to combat the types of cheating these students do.

-The schools make a lot of money from international students and are not too keen to upset the apple cart.

There's enough blame to go around for both the schools and the students. The essay industry is also an enabler. It's somewhat of a balanced ecosystem right now, since everyone is getting what they want.

I only do this part-time, and so far, private clients fill up my available time. Company work hasn't been an option since I don't have time and it doesn't pay as well. If I did this full-time, I would do company work to fill in any slots where I couldn't find private clients. I fell into the business and get clients mainly through word-of-mouth.

Independent freelancer. I don't even have my own site. No company work as of yet.

I don't think I agree that there are less orders this year. I'm getting swamped.

Here is the problem. If the customer is a native English speaker, then even one instance of non-native English, anywhere in the paper, will tip off the instructor that this student did not write this paper. It will be that obvious. Therefore, after paying for the paper, the student will have to go through and edit carefully. But there's a good chance the student is pressed for time, as many clients are. So ordering papers written by ESL writers is not practical for most native English speaking students.

For ESL students, ESL writers can work pretty well, assuming the paper is not pure garbage. In fact, English that is too polished can make the instructor suspicious. I have often been asked throw in some non-native-looking English to make papers look more authentic. With an ESL writer, that would be happening without effort or intention, in most cases.

It's an industry full of fraud at both the company and individual writer levels. Nobody trusts anybody, and with good reason. If you find a good freelancer OR company, stick with them.

ChinaEssays, how much are you guys paying?

You mean the ESL students can get away with a lower quality of work?

Based on the level of English in the post, you should be competitive anywhere you apply. You write like a native.

Do you manage to have work to write every day, just about?

Yes, viva voce. So from what you are saying, it sounds like even viva voce can be beaten with the right preparation.

I guess that's what I was thinking if, pretty much. Do you hear of it happening very often?

In the U.S., my understanding is that the instructors can do that, but they don't consider it good enough proof of plagiarism even if the student fails the "chat."

You try it, then. The page number thing cannot be done. It's a well-known issue.

One thing I hate about Google Docs is that you can't quite do APA style correctly. You can't omit the page number on the first page while keeping it on subsequent pages.

How is it going on your own? Are you able to find enough clients?

Best to find your own clients. You'll make twice as much per page, at least.

For most, I think the workload over the year is a laittle more variable than that, but it's probably a fair average. Do you think that amount of work would typically be available, though?