Should companies treat independent freelance writers as their "employees"?

It took you only 473 posts, but better late than never.


It confirms yet again you have never worked in the private industry. Why are you so concerned about the company's earnings? If the company doesn't make money then it has no motivation to be on the market. That means freelancers have less job opportunities.

Is it your other goal - to send all online freelance writers on welfare?


The market / competition decide the CPP. In some cases the writer decides about their own CPP (if they are allowed to name their own price).


Some freelancers do 12 pages a YEAR (or less) for a company they have an account with. That equals to 1 page a month. In your limited world, all writers would have to do is to set up accounts with several companies, write 1 page a month, and get paid X days*$100? Assuming X=20days/year, writers would get $2,000 a year just from one company doing nothing?

But that's just the beginning. Creative writers could easily set up accounts with 50 companies. That equals 50*$2,000 ('sick days') = 100K a year for nothing. Maybe such system is working great in the public sector (what's the US deficit again?), but not for us who are in the private sector.


If someone chooses to work as an independent freelance writer their biggest reward is getting projects. Those who want extra incentives and bonuses get a brick and mortar job where they are constantly watched and controlled by their employer. Why is it so hard for you to understand?

again, this is alarmist, and again, you seem to be obsessed with the welfare system. I'm not trying to put anyone out of work-- quite the opposite.


this isn't true. a writer working on a PhD thesis, and a writer reviewing a TV show for a high school student, deserve different rates. plus, with so many writers working from home, how would they clock in and out?


you must be in Europe. 20 sick days?


this is the status quo. it shouldn't be this way.

In other words, your goal is to kill the freelance writing business.

Just say it and don't play games with us.

Currently people on the job market have two options:

A. Work as an employee in a brick and mortar job and be fully controlled by their employer.

B. Work as a freelancer (like all current freelance writers do) and have all the freedom and opportunities they can get.

Those who want to have: paid sick days, vacations, health insurance, bonuses (what company gives bonuses these days anyway) choose option A (and are your friends)!

Those who value freedom of work and the opportunity of being their own boss choose option B!

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Whatever you propose already exists and it's up to the individual if they want it or not!

But you want to remove option B and make all workers be controlled slaves of their employers and the system. Slaves who have a few sickdays and some carrots ('bonuses.').

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The real question is WHY are you here (and possibly on other forums for writers) trying to bring your agenda to kill the freelance writing business? I think Roger's post who suggested you are an IRS worker makes perfect sense. Hey, you are also working as an independent contractor, no? :-)

No freelance writing business = More collected taxes = More bonuses for YOU

This is the answer to all of your questions.

those are your "other words," not mine. since you are a company owner, I can see how you are threatened by some of my ideas. this does not give you permission to put words in my mouth.

but, since you did, tit for tat: I'll take some from yours-- "slaves with a few carrots--" this sums up the current situation of most writers in the industry quite well. you would have writers believe that the "biggest reward" for being independent is simply getting work-- I am saying that this is not enough.

No, your ideas threaten THOUSANDS of people who work online as independent freelance writers.


Don't make me laugh..

Anyway, your reply and avoidance of answering the relevant questions just reaffirms my position about who you are and what your agenda is.

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My only suggestion for professional freelance writers and editors who read this thread -- please invite your colleagues into this discussion so that they could express their opinion about their expected (ie. worsened) standards of living and (lack of) professional opportunities once the ideas of the tools like editor75 are implemented.

I agree; I would like to hear from more writers. it appears that there aren't really too many here who are regulars. I wasn't expecting this; I assume that it's the hostile atmosphere.


let's all try to communicate like grownups. it's fine to disagree without calling names, isn't it? I realize it's a lot to ask.

Everyone reacted very rationally and calmly until you began persistently ignoring the substantive problems noted with your ideas.


A lot of writers in this industry do this very part time and probably don't bother looking into the goings-on behind the scenes (including this forum).

Exactly.

ha! people immediately started telling me I was "out of my mind" and to "seek help." I was surprised and put off by the hostile reaction then, and still am.


this isn't true, either. in fact, I've changed my mind about several of my initial assumptions, due to the constructive feedback I've been able to find (like a needle in a haystack). I've also been very up front about the difficulty of what I'm suggesting, and the substantial obstacles it entails.

even if most of the writers in this industry are part time, and could care less, I still think there should be minimum standards, and that employers should be held more accountable.

Accountable for what?

they should be held more accountable for how little of the cut they're giving their employees.

Since an hourly rate doesn't and cannot work in this industry then sick days cannot work, either. Refer to my post about sick days.

Anything else?

You
are
a
blithering
idiot.

How many times do we have to tell you to stop painting ALL companies with the same brush? Until you do, **** you.

OK-- so maybe an hourly rate and sick days won't work-- exactly as they would in other settings-- that's still no reason to give up on the general idea of improving conditions for writers.

no matter what the company is, or where it's from, I think things can be better for its writers. there should be a minimum standard. if you run a company that treats its writers well, maybe you're already above the minimum standard. so, does that mean there shouldn't be one, or that I shouldn't be trying to stimulate discussion about what that standard should be?

I don't get it. no one has added anything substantial. why ignore an issue that could make your employees happier and more productive?

This is the essential problem with all of your arguments--they are not finite. There is apparently no condition, real or hypothetical, in which you belive writers should not feel compelled to "improve their condition." If the owners made just enough to get by and writers made enough to purchase vacation homes after five years, you'd still say that there is "room for improvement." You would be right, of course, and the owners could make even less while giving the writers even more, but in this scenario that really wouldn't be fair or good.

At some point, there is a balance, and while conditions could "improve" they are at a point of equanimity between the writers and the owners. Good writers working for good companies might be at that point, but you refuse to acknowledge that this point even exists. That is why trying to provide constructive criticism has been so hopeless--it took a month of hearing the exact same arguments over and over again to get you to admit that sick days are a bad idea. You're boring.


People have been replying with arguments of substance for a month. The fact that you discount all of our arguments is a reflection on your lack of logical and rational capabilities rather than a reflection on the character of this forum or the individuals that populate it.

I'm bored! this forum is a pit. there is nothing rational or constructive going on here. it's ruled by 2 or 3 hostile paranoids. I've belonged to a few of these things, and believe me, there is something wrong here. since jump, it's been like a race to see who can be the most insulting and condescending; I didn't come here to argue. I'm used to forums where people welcome new members, consider new ideas, and act like adults. this place is poison. I'm done repeating myself ad nauseum. I must be some kind of masochist, to have lasted this long.

Please DO let the door hit you on the way out. Moron.

Apparently he would enjoy this...

I just thought that I'd remind everyone of editor75's unbelievable levels of stupidity.

thanks, WB. I do still think that writers in this industry need to be treated better by their bosses, who don't do as much of the work. if this makes me stupid to you, maybe you should check on your honesty level regarding your position in this industry. you're still telling people you don't work for *********, right?

This is difficult to do when you consider that the employees are not located in the same region / country as the company. How can one employ regular writers overseas? What sort of employment laws apply? How does the regular wage get computed? What about Social Security payments and health insurance? It is a legal nightmare. These are, as far as I am concerned, the main reasons that writers cannot be treated as "regular" employees. There was never a contractual agreement to begin with. It is always a handshake agreement or verbal agreement. The TOS agreement cannot apply to all countries. So, it is better to treat them as freelancers instead.

By definition, anybody who calls himself a "freelancer" works on the basis of selling work or services by the hour, day, or job. We do not answer to the company but to the client. The company is only the contact point for the job. It is understood that the company earns an undisclosed percentage from the work they assist the writer in getting. The writer is not employed by the company since there is no employment contract. Therefore, the company is not bound by any laws to treat the writer as an employee. This is also the reason why it is wrong for the writer to allow the company to treat him as a regular employee. The company uses the "not an employee" excuse every time it suits them to do so. There is no rule that prevents the writer from using the same excuse on the company when it suits them to do so as well. Writer should treat the company the same way they treat their writers. That will level the playing field.