Companies should treat their independent freelance writers WELL. If they could work out a way of treating independent writers as employees that was ethical and fair to all parties, that'd be fine, I suppose, but the point is that they don't rip them off.

Again, I agree, but you're missing my point. Those here who are not just writers but also managers would be facing a conflict of interest backing a union of writers. It's a good thing, if you can get it off the ground...

Except that "scabs" would be omnipresent.


I agree in theory, but clearly some companies are exploitative.

Tracker: It's highly suspicious to have an external, downloadable file. I don't trust that that's not a virus. Post your evidence here, please.

Sure, but my general policy is "Trust, but verify". Until I see evidence that someone is clearly a shill, I won't assume they are. John has clearly passed the shill test: He is obviously working for one of these companies.

Except that a company has an incentive to reduce the amount they pay their workers, while the workers have an incentive to increase that amount beyond the profitability of the company. This tension resolves itself, assuming competition both among workers and companies, as hopefully fair rates. This writer's union is an attempt to increase worker pay: Some of us here would face a conflict of interest.

Hmmmmm... Two sudden recommendations, some in age-old threads, by a new member...

Sorry, John, but we do have to be a bit suspicious here.

No, it's not. A union collectively organizes as an institution to protect workers' interests. We are from many different companies, and some of us own or in managerial positions in our companies. I personally do most of my negotiations with the CLIENT, not with freelancers. This site is like the BBB: It monitors for scamming but does not recommend businesses.

EssayPro: Because this forum is vulnerable to shills, sock puppets and spam, the forum has a very specific, confined mission: Describe SPECIFIC companies that have scammed people SPECIFICALLY. That's it.

Go to essaychat.com. That's a forum more in line with what you're trying to do.

My solution was to go into business for myself. The market is far from glutted, and I can't count the number of clients who have talked about scam papers and bad experiences or about fears of these things.

That having been said, sites like this have gotten people like EW.net to lose tons of good writers. Other more reliable sites get the benefit. We just need to keep working at it.

How did you pay? Cancel the previous payment with your bank as a fraudulent expenditure.

I agree, but there is certainly value to having one person or a few people handle promotion and management so that writers can focus on not having to do that.

My ten year long experience differs. It's true that many big sites are scams, but do you honestly think, as a matter of economic plausibility, that talented writers WOULDN'T be looking for this kind of work?

Or if there is one mis-spelled word in an entire fifty page dissertation, that would count as a delivered product too.

The difficulty is that there is some inherent amount of subjectivity. It's not like a car where the car can be identified to be broken or not: It's a continuous, not a discrete, product.

Well, it's good that people are scared of this site.

It just seems really suspicious to post two unsupported, unspecific accusations that are worded identically.

I hate APA formatting.

I'd say that unless the instructor specifies it, don't specify a type of citation format. Any good writer will use one of the standards or use a format that tells the instructor the relevant information (name, title of article, title of journal and/or source of publication, date of publication, URL and date of access if a site - and frankly, given how much is on the Internet these days, most things SHOULD have a UR, etc.)

George: We mean show some proof, like the copy of the plagiarism report, and don't just refer to it. It's nice to have the proof there up front so scammers can't say that you're just holding it back or fabricating it.

There is no such practice. I simply used the manual quote/quote without including the =username. You apparently didn't read very carefully.

You misunderstand my argument. I am not comparing this site to the NYT or the WSJ. Rather, I was saying that posting your proof twice, once on a blog and once here, would not be redundant, any more than the same article being posted twice, once in the NYT and once in the WSJ, is redundant.


No, and your assertions are really strange. My point is that, given that you have the evidence backed up natively on your hard drive AND you could put the evidence elsewhere, there is NO RISK to posting your evidence here, even if you honestly think despite no evidence to support it that posts are tampered with willy-nilly on this site.


So you need to anonymize it. Great. You can still post the relevant parts...

Ummmmmmmm... HOW, exactly?

You would post information.

The information would be tampered with.

You would then prove that the information WAS tampered with by virtue of having your own version of the data.

You would not only have proven your original point, but ALSO proven that this site was hostile and dishonest. You would have destroyed years of amassed credibility at once. That's better, from some people's perspective (certainly from the perspective of someone who alleges dishonesty or hostility here), than just posting the original evidence.

By your reasoning, it would be redundant to post the same article on the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal. The blog post would also get you more exposure for your evidence.

This is so transparent and obvious, I wonder why there's so much prevarication...

As for treading carefully: Again, WHY? This site can discredit them, posted information or otherwise. At least with posting here, you can counter that issue. And that's still immaterial to the fact that, if you have evidence that you have a copy of, you need not be afraid of tampering.

As for PMs: If you have a problem with a company, it should be out in the open, given that that's the point of the site... PMs are for different things.

So... every court case ever, then.

How can the legality not LOOK very strong? Writing papers is a form of speech. We are protected by the First Amendment in America barring specific legislation OTHERWISE. I wouldn't be surprised if that Massachusetts law is actually unconstitutional now. In any respect, you can't just sue or prosecute someone over a law that doesn't exist and hope to win. That's legislation through the courtroom and is pretty heavily frowned upon. The only reason the Boston U case even worked at ALL is because there was some claim that they had violated STATE LAW.

Reviewing the Wikipedia article, the case was even worse than I thought. This was a private action. NOT legal action, but a civil suit. This means that the DA didn't even want to TOUCH the idea of prosecuting, even when the law is clear! The plaintiff attorney would like to stop this sort of behavior but it seems transparently clear he knows that the law is NOT on his side. Finally, they also managed to get some traction because they were dealing with real research, which could have fraud implications. But that's NOT the same as writing someone's Hamlet paper for an undergraduate English class.

Since "I write essays" is, to their spam bot, identical to "I need essays".

To be fair, it's not like all those men drugs are bad or fraudulent just because their online marketing is, shall we say, questionable. I just would like to know more about them. Again, the thing that piques my curiosity is their claim that they have Ph. D and master's writers in the fields in question. Somehow, I doubt that, but where do they get their writers?

Well, I don't see any other threads on this site about them. Their page doesn't look bad from a very cursory look. But definitely tell us how the customer service interaction goes. If it's written badly, that's a big red flag.

We can't offer any recommendations. ssaychat.com is for recommendations.

An update: They just spammed EssayChat and... me. Yes, they sent spam to a COMPETITOR.

What I wonder as I check out sites like these is, "Where do they ACTUALLY get their writers?" They claim to be pure Ph. D writers, but the writing quality would be higher if that was the case and wouldn't have some of the obvious errors.

Here's a copy of their entire message to me.

Dear Clients!

We are pioneers in writing academic papers of all categories and classes. We are proud to inform you that we deliver outstanding research papers, dissertation, thesis, admission essays and case study analysis. We also offer editing as well as formatting services at affordable rates. Many of our clients are the students in top ranking universities in the UK, Europe and the US have topped their batch after having done their dissertations and academic essays by our highly qualifies staff of academic writers. Our staff comprises of leading research students, active professors as well as gold medalists in respective academic fields.

We now welcome you to pay a visit to our website academiasolution.com/. After browsing through our website, you shall get a clear idea regarding our work process, quality checks and delivery schedule. We specialize in business management, law, finance ,Basic sciences and English literature. Our research papers are 100% plagiarism free. We also have a dedicated team of Quality Research Analysts who edit each paper for possible ambiguities before dispatching them to you.

We also provide the following services free of charge to each of our esteemed client.

Free title page
Free bibliography page
Free reference page
Fully referred and cited
Free delivery via e-mail.
Free Unlimited amendments
Free plagiarism checking report
Any formatting; APA, MLA, Chicago, Turabian, Harvard, or any other.

Ps: We are offering a unique discount scheme for our esteemed clients. As per the discount scheme,

All our regular customers enjoy our company's special discounts. On every third order you place, you get to enjoy our discount upon meeting the following criteria;

15 - 20 pages 10% Discount
21 - 35 pages 15% Discount
35+ pages 20% Discount

Looking forward to writing your research paper at the earliest.

Kind Regards,

Academia Solution

academiasolution.com

Semi-colon instead of a colon, capitalizing in the middle of a sentence for no good reason... it's not terrible at all, but it does have some weird errors.

Lord of Galloway: I think that we are aware of potential legal and academic risks. That having been said, barring a few jurisdictions like Massachusetts, to the best of my knowledge it is neither illegal to turn in a plagiarized paper nor to write a paper with the understanding that it will be plagiarizes.

Other than that, I agree 100%. If they don't like your work, they can fire you. I suppose pay docks and demotions are used by legit companies, but NEVER to the degree they do in this business. And it doesn't matter because you're a contractor: You did the agreed work, you get the agreed money. Period.

Pokersoft: It's worth the try to send them a cursory list of flaws. If it's egregious spelling, then complain about egregious spelling. If they did not understand the prompt, then ask for a new writer. You have a week and nothing to lose. This also gives you a record of their incompetence for potential refunding.

Says the guy who says "ur site".

And if they DO come here, while thinking this place is unremittingly hostile to them, wouldn't they have an interest in DISCREDITING this place? Post the material to a blog too. If it gets changed here, you have incontrovertible proof that the people here are dishonest. There are numerous ways of sharing evidence that aren't some kind of backroom PM.

Of course, it does seem this is another tendril of the EW.net machine, but hey. Was still a silly argument ;)

Especially since he has a copy on his side in the first place, so that means he can easily repost it if it got photoshopped. That would instantly discredit this entire site. No one else here is afraid of posting long e-mail interactions, and I don't think there's evidence ANY have been tampered with.

No disrespect, but that's silly. Yes, not everyone is objective anywhere. But if you HAVE the evidence, how can it be DISTORTED? The evidence would kept, untampered with, and any distortions could be dealt with. This seems to be special pleading...

WSaban: It's a tiny bit suspicious to post twice just to be able to message someone. Especially for a two year old thread.


It varies. How MUCH research? I might charge $30 if it required extensive case law study! If it was some pretty minimal research, I might go as low as $10-15. Is that 20 double or single spaced pages, 12 point Roman font, etc.? I know that it's absurd to ask, but I've had people clarify that, yes, they meant single spaced, substantially into contract negotiation. Etc.

No problem. I see now that the way you add the quote when you're doing it manually, like I prefer, is to say "=[X person in question]". Very cool. Some forums also add dates and times of the quoted text. I think that's definitely the best way of being honest.

No. I had acknowledged her wonderful work. I do not want her to stop posting to this forum or even to this thread.

I'm saying I'm not going to argue with her anymore. I will reply to other people, on other threads. I'll stay in my corner, unilaterally, barring her saying something about me. She has suggested, to her credit, the same thing. Either I have a way of speaking that makes her angry or she is very sensitive: Either way, I am going to do what I can to avoid provoking WB. I think that is fair for everyone.

I had made the agreement clearer near the top of this page.

WRT: I'm not trying to endear myself to anyone. I am just using this forum as a way to protect me and my sub-contractors, and help people who are even newer to the field than I am with the best information I have. Nor has she "run rings" around me: I have responded to every one of her arguments with no difficulty. Every one of the arguments I disagree with, which, in general, I don't, as she's usually spot-on about the industry.

The disagreement came about when I didn't agree with something she said about Ebonics. I provided my disagreement, and explained why. It escalated for reasons I still do not understand, and I am trying to make sure it de-escalates now. But I'm not going to be treated apishly. I don't think that's an inappropriate stand. I will reply to attacks on my character but will not initiate any more comments, no matter how respectful I think they are.

She has not replied to this thread thus far, so I am only replying to you at the moment.

I hope that makes the issue clearer.

I have nothing to hide. I run a business I am proud of. I want her to continue exposing frauds, and will do what I can to help with that wonderful exercise. But I hope that it's clear that doing good work doesn't make bad work acceptable. Going after me over an honest disagreement over language would be deeply inappropriate, wouldn't it? I am making sure that doesn't happen, so that no honest person providing good work is harmed.

Except I didn't ask anyone else to change theirs. You brought it up, I explained what *I* was doing. I never impugned doing things differently. Were you of a helpful disposition, you might say, "Are you aware that the quoting system works thusly? It's a matter of etiquette here..." And I would work on adopting that as a habit.

To reiterate: The moment that there are no more posts from you here, I do not reply here, nor in any other way or thread, to you.

I think it's pretty shady to not have a set pay schedule. Either the writer is qualified, or he/she is not. This tells me that the company hires unqualified writers if the price is right. Such is the custom for essaywriters, anyway.


It strikes me that, even if this were not the case, discretion would be advised. But how would they know barring you including that on your resume? Simply apply.

I'd also say that, when you are within the university, it would probably be ethical not to write any papers.


That's my opinion as well. Further, you really have to ask how our educational system is designed pedagogically. Take the idea of a test. In the real world, you are never shoved into a room, not allowed to talk or use materials you have on hand, and forced to reply to questions off of the top of your head. Even at a job application, it is perfectly acceptable to refer to your resumé which is on the table. The vast majority of the time, the problems you're dealing with aren't about memorization but research, talking to others, etc.

Similarly, in the real world, if you have an assignment, a piece of writing, that you can't or won't handle, it is considered STUPID to try to slog through it yourself and produce a mediocre piece of work. You would delegate it. Yes, you'd acknowledge you delegated it, but no one would punish you for that delegation.

I think it's an empirical question whether students are better off getting an F, retaking a class, etc., or seeing a sample way to answer a prompt. In my experience, my clients get better over time and adopt some of the tricks I use in papers.


It seems to me virtually nil, but I can't prove a negative. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I know plagiarism has cost people careers, but being the plagiarized?

I repeat: I am not posting to this thread anymore barring replies from WritersBeware.


To reiterate:


Also, how is that narcissistic? Isn't that the OPPOSITE of it? It's certainly orthogonal to narcissism...

I'm done here. I am not going to reply to this thread any more barring you doing so. I invite you, once again, to do the same. We both have offered each other to back off and I am doing so.

You're kidding, right? You said something, confidently and arrogantly in a post FILLED with abuse, that was wrong. I said the ARGUMENT was problematic. Not you, not your behavior, NOTHING. This is NOT a personal attack. More importantly, you not only immediately escalated and at every step I did not further escalate, I also offered you a mutual truce. I apologize if you viewed this as an "attack": That was not my intention. But I still find it hypocritical, respectfully, for you to talk about personal attacks given this thread alone...


Then keep working on that. If you have time to persecute me, you have time to go after them too.

Not used to people being able to reply to your non sequiturs, ad hominems and abuse?

1. You parrot arguments that you have been beaten soundly in over and over again, without taking the time to reply to points.

2. You dishonestly take arguments out of context.

3. You are abusive.

4. You think ad hominem arguments are legitimate arguments.

5. You state opinions that cannot be supported by evidence you don't supply, while not acknowledging that there is disagreement in the fields you are citing.

6. You resurrect issues that you have dropped.

7. You double-post until you're called on it.

8. You are unhinged and show signs of severe psychiatric problems.

9. You are unprofessional.

10. You escalate personal conflicts into character assassination.

I can go on. You also have no evidence of me lying. If you did, you probably would have included it in your little character assassination blurb.

Dear GOD, is this how you treat your friends? Family? Children? Clients? This level of narcissism is already pretty bad on the Internet; I wonder if this is a release valve for your bad behavior or not. I thought that your attacks on people like EW Writer had to do with your honest belief that they were scammers and you just couldn't control your temper, justifiably so, against such people. But in this case? I've had to revise my beliefs.

As opposed to oldbies who decided to attack others?

I signed up to see what scams there were and to offer my criticisms. I have never mentioned anything specific about a PERSON, or even really a business, until you decided to respond to A DEBATE ABOUT EBONICS with personal attacks and threats on my business.

You're attacking someone who you have no reason to believe isn't honest, capable, judicious, etc. on a forum about BONA FIDE SCAMMERS because they disagreed with you. You attack others. No reasonable outside observer could conclude that your behavior is ANY better than mine, and indeed it is clearly quite a bit worse.

I'm not going to be threatened. I have behaved entirely according to the rules of this forum. You have decided to turn a personal vendetta into a business one. You are discrediting yourself, anyone who chooses to employ you, and this forum. I'm going to ask you one more time to back off, and I will avoid saying anything critical about you, ever, given that you are transparently incapable of taking any disagreement.

No wonder companies like EW.net are still in business: People like you are willing to waste their time turning feuds into attacks on honest businesses.

Oh, and by the way: The claim that I signed up "just" to attack others is transparently and definitionally wrong. Take this post I made.

No personal attacks. No insults to specific businesses. Nothing but positive support. I've looked over thousands of your posts and can't see anything remotely so helpful. Talk about the pot calling the picket fence black.

"Slanging" matches? What's a "slanging" match? I assume you mean a "slinging" match?

Great, insulting customers. Customers have plenty of reasons to order an essay: See a different perspective on the topic, illness, family or work obligations, etc. I've known perfectly capable writers who just didn't have the time. The likelihood that this is sock puppetry is also pretty obvious, but I don't want to impugn people without evidence.