There's no "club" here and nobody has any prejudice against any new member who contributes to threads appropriately and genuinely. You two are annoying to many of us strictly because of the way you both bombard the board on thread after thread and the way you preach to us even though we're probably much more established in this industry than you are and don't need any "advice" from you. Frankly, most people probably find it annoying just to hit the "Latest Thread" button only to to see, time and time again, that every one of the last 10 threads ends with a brand new completely vapid post from you. Nobody here knows anything much about one another except for our posting history and there is no conspiracy against new members whether they're prospective customers, experienced customers, aspiring writers, or experienced writers. If you're experiencing negativity here, I guarantee that it's strictly an indication that the content of your posts comes across as extremely obnoxious. There's really nothing more to it at all. It's not anybody else's fault that you've firmly established yourself as the most obnoxious and least respected member to join this forum in a long time. You've earned that distinction all by yourself through your very persistent efforts. Since you're trained in law, you should understand the concept res ipsa loquitur.

Yes, and it's not just me: practically everybody on this forum who's been here any length of time and earned one another's mutual respect considers you, Stu4, and Editor75 to be very similar. You, in particular, post so frequently and your posts are so valueless, preachy, and self-serving that it comes across as obnoxious spam to almost everybody. About the only thing you have going for you over Stu4 is that you don't also make fraudulently false claims to disparage competing companies. Otherwise, yes: you're viewed about the same as those two "contributors" to this forum.

Now you know how most of us here feel about you.

I was actually going to respond to the thread by saying that the number of orders visible on your screen depends on your company ranking as a writer and that Pheelyks and I have about 50 orders visible at all times. Then I thought about why it might not be such a bright idea because certain writers would then be bothering admin with questions about it and I decided it wasn't worth it. It's also not a bright idea to ask your kinds of questions here, but you don't seem to value the advice or opinions of other more experienced members of this "community" you want to be part of.

I don't think that's allowed but for as long as the mods choose to let this thread stay up, I'd ask my customers to do the same and relate their experiences with me to others out of fairness. Judging by his nonsensical posts here (especially on legal issues), the guy has absolutely no idea when he doesn't know the first thing about a topic and it doesn't stop him from expounding on it as though he does. If I were a potential client, I'd shy away from anybody with that "quality" as a writer.

There doesn't have to be any specific scale; that was just a way of explaining. It actually could be arbitrary if it's in good faith. Say, a company that doesn't tell you why they "like" some work better than other work but does pay some writers whose work they "like" 100%. Even that would be OK as long as it's exercised in good faith. It's always your choice not to work that way.

Furthermore, you're even wrong about "compliance." Compliance means there has to be something objective to comply with, and it has to be disclosed. They can't say they have "compliance" criteria but apply them "unilaterally" without telling you specifically how to comply 100% and how you failed to. But they could use an editor who just evaluates by how much he "likes" or "dislikes" writing subjectively as long as it's in good faith and not a ploy to escape payment. Basically, everything you're saying is legally actionable isn't and everything you're saying isn't legally problematic is. You're just stringing together legal terms without the slightest understanding of what they mean, and being intentionally disrespectful to someone else I respect in the process. Just shutup with this already, you fool.


I don't know anything at all about AR but that had nothing to do with the nonsense of your Contracts "lesson" for Pheelyks.


You figured out that not paying on a contract is actionable without being a lawyer? That's pretty impressive, Sherlock. But it's neither fraudulent nor necessarily criminal unless they never intended to pay in the first place. Just shut up with this already, you fool.


Oh yeah? So you're saying you understand every single clause in the last lease or gym contract you signed and that if the average person wouldn't without legal help those entire contracts are null and void? Just shut up with this already, you fool.


I'm sorry. I have to be 100% honest here: I DON'T RESPECT YOU. Again, I'm sorry.

You're really an idiot and you know nothing about contract law so just stop embarassing yourself already telling other people what you think is true and that they're "ignorant." I've been through law school and did pretty well, how about you? Contracts have to express a meeting of the minds and be specific in their terms, but that has nothing to do with what you're talking about at all. Parties contract to abide by the subjective evaluation of one party about the work all the time.

If the contract says that you get paid for an essay only if the company thinks it meets its standards (or that you get paid as much as they think it's worth based on their review) and that the company's determination of essay quality is final, guess what? It's absolutely enforceable and your only choice is to sign it or find another company whose contract you like better. There's no problem with that unless their opinion is arbitrary and all they'd have to do to avoid that would be assign a letter or numerical grade to the essay and post a pay scale corresponding to those grades. Just shutup already.

• 
  PotKettle
  

I stand by everything I've said:

1. If you're a good writer, you shouldn't have that much trouble finding a reputable company. If you're working for peanuts or continually getting ripped off by one scam company after another, it's simply because you can't get hired by any good company. It's not that hard.

2. Anybody with extensive experience working for himself and also working for a good company appreciates a lot of what the companies do on their end.

3. The last thing I'm wasting my time on is going through your ridiculously long posts on this nonsense more carefully. This is already enough of a waste of time.

Right. Because the busier you are writing the more you "appreciate" all the other stuff you have to do that you don't get paid a penny extra for. The same way cab drivers who drive 70 hours a week "appreciate" all the money they "make" doing engine repairs instead of driving.

Before, I only assumed that you don't get very much work; now, I'm certain of it. Nobody would consider doing admin stuff to be "making money" unless he were still struggling to build a clientele. Anybody already working at anywhere near full capacity would never consider admin stuff to be "making money"; quite the opposite: it feels like losing money doing that stuff (despite the fact that it's necessary) instead of getting back to working on all your deadlines.

Keeping this stupid argument going is another indication you're not working very much, too. Again, all of this nonsense is in response to the fact that I happened to mention that the more private work I do the more I appreciate what the companies do. Pheelyks said the same thing in other threads and I happen to know that his output is as high as mine and quite possibly even higher. By all means though, keep arguing against that sentiment as though neither of us knows what we're talking about and you do.


Same reason people in the market for a clock prefer ones that actually work to one's that don't even though they may still be right twice a day.

Congratulations. You just set the record for the longest waste of bandwidth over the stupidest possible issue imaginable. All I said was that the more private work I do the more I appreciate the fact that the companies handle all that stuff for me. First, you intimate that I must not be all that good a writer because of that and now you've called me irrational for it. For your information, I've also recently cut loose a couple of very steady long-term clients (2+ yrs each) just because I've always considered them somewhat annoying to deal with on a personal level. I'm at the point where I sometimes get more work thrown my way than I want so maybe I can afford to be a little more picky about things on my end. Believe it or not, if given the choice, I'd rather spend a half hour writing a paper than answer emails for half that time. I don't really know "why" but by all means, post a few thousand more words in response to that. Maybe when you find yourself getting as much work as I do and writing constantly you'll have less patience for certain things too. Then again, maybe you'll never have that problem.

I didn't say I found it "difficult"; I just said it's a hassle and I appreciate not having to deal with any of it on company orders. My companies provide a nice virtual calendar that automatically displays all my orders. On company orders I don't have to engage in (sometimes) extended email exchanges with new customers who (understandably) have a lot of questions and need reassurance because they've never done this before. Many of those exchanges are also very repetitive and I have to answer the same questions and explain the same things many times. With company orders I just click on a paper and it goes right onto my calendar and then I upload it when it's finished.

Now that I'm forced to think about it more to respond to your rhetorical questions, it's mainly the communications with new clients much more than anything else like just writing a due date down or "checking to see if a payments has been made." Obviously, I appreciate new clients and I understand their concerns, but it's distracting to respond when I'm already working constantly.


And I have to wonder how bright someone is who thinks there's necessarily any connection between disliking administrative stuff and writing a good essay.


I don't "attack" anybody here. I meant that any decent writer who deserves to be hired by the companies that use me shouldn't have a problem with getting ripped off. If you can't figure out which companies mentioned here are not going to rip off anybody, you're probably too dopey to write a good paper in the first place, especially going by your logic. Meanwhile, your questioning "how well someone can do on the writing part of the job" because I said I appreciate not having to handle admin stuff is as much of an "attack" as anything I've said about anybody here.

Thanks, I need emails from this dope asking abour my work like I need a hole in the head. I'd rather answer the door for Jehovas Witnesses. (Last time was in 1995...I let them in, sat them down, and then announced that I wanted to introduce them to the benefits of atheism. They suddenly decided they didn't like people who proselytize, took off in a huff, and never returned.)


Again, who's "we"? You're not even a part of this industry in any meanigful way (if at all) and nobody here but you thinks there's even any possible issue because we all understand the fundamental criteria distinguishing independent contractors from employees. You never answered the question about what you actually do for a fulltime living, either.

The only part of your post I disagree with.


I don't think he knows it at all; he seems genuinely clueless about being clueless. Thank you for the list & comments over there, BTW...I checked out that site for the first time after reading this thread on here.

You don't have a "good basic idea" at all and it's not about "terminology"; you have demonstrated that you genuinely know absolutely nothing about employment law or the industry you're presuming to offer suggestions about reforming. There are already various freelancers' unions for people who want to join them and they're not specific to this industry. You're the only one who thinks there's even a need for this discussion. Those of us who are already actually working in this industry like our freelancing arrangement and don't consider ourselves exploited at all; we need the companies as much as they need us. If you had any common sense, you'd realize that the fact that all of us freelancers (and not company reps) are the ones telling you that your idea is ridiculous means that it probably is and not that we're all "brainwashed" or too "unimaginative" to appreciate your fantastic ideas.

Just out of curiosity, what do you actually do for a living and how much of your annual income comes from "editing" anything?

Nobody's being negative at all. There's one person who obviously knows nothing about this industry or about the most basic elements distinguishing freelance work from employment spouting endless nonsensical "advice" to people who are actually working in this industry. No matter how many people try to explain that your ideas are ridiculous, you remain unconvinced and continue to believe that it's everyone else who's mistaken and not you. Most of us are just not interested in any kind of work that requires the type of obligations that go along with fulltime employment. Chances are almost everybody here has more experience than you do in both realms and can compare the relative advantages and disadvantages of each from practical experience more than you can.

I'd love for my essay companies to pay for my health insurance, but I understand that's not an option with freelance work of any kind. Your position makes as much sense as trying to convince a forum populated by fulltime employees that they should lobby for the right to work whatever days and hours they want with no questions asked by their employers. By all means, preach on and continue bombarding this forum with your nonsense, just don't be offended that nobody here takes you seriously.

Are you familiar with a 2003 article by Simkin & Roychowdhury called "Do Copied Citations Create Renowned Papers"? They demonstrated that a majority of the authors of peer-reviewed scientific papers simply copy the references in their citations from previously published papers. (They showed that the frequency with which certain articles are cited and the multiple identical instances of specific citation mistakes in those references could not possibly be explained by random chance.)

Don't you think that fraudulent research in peer-reviewed scientific literature is a much more serious issue than what you've gotten your panties all bunched up over?

Again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about; you're using terminology that don't even understand. "At-will-employees" are still employees, just without a contract. They still have mandatory hours and assignments, and they get benefits. Those of us who actually work in the industry that you're pretending to know something about are independent contractors, not "at-will employees."


Who's "we"? You're obviously not even part of this industry; that's the only thing I'm "denying." It's not "elitist" to suggest that people who've never really worked in an industry or who barely work in an industry are not qualified to be giving "advice" about it to people who know much more about it than they do. I'm not "exploited" and I compete directly with my "employer" by doing as much freelance work as I can. I choose to continue to work for them for all of the reasons that Pheelyks and I have both already explained. Unlike you, he's also actually really a part of this industry that you obviously know next to nothing about. (Merry Christmas, that "next to" is your gift from me.)

No kidding. Stop "theorizing"; start reading more carefully.

Not for nuthin', Rog, but if this is really the first post of mine that you agree with, advertising that fact doesn't exactly enhance your intellectual credibility here.

You're clearly out of your mind. "Employee" status would mean that the companies could assign orders to me or require a specific volume of work as a condition of employment. As an independent contractor, I can take as much work as I want to; I can ignore any assignments I don't want to write; and I can work as much or as little as I please any day, week, or year without asking anybody's permission.

Nobody ever "encourages" me to do anything I don't want to (except maybe by sometimes offering me more money to take on especially difficult papers or to handle work for family and friends of the company). They provide an assignment board to which I can log on (or not) anytime I wish. If I want to write 1 paper per week or 7 papers in a day, that's entirely my business and my decision. If you've ever actually done this job professionally, you know that whether it's freelance or contract work, we almost always have multiple deadlines every single day of our lives.

I'm getting the sense that you're someone who barely even works as a writer of any kind, maybe earning a few hundred dollars a month (if that) presuming to dole out "advice" on an industry you know nothing about to people who have actually been earning a fulltime salary doing this pretty successfully for years. You should probably spend way more time actually writing papers and way less time figuring out how to "improve" an industry that you're not even really a part of yet.

Pheelyks has made this point before, but those of us who have been writing fulltime for years and who have extensive experience working for good essay companies as well as working freelance really have no complaints with the companies taking their fair cut for the role they play. In the busy season (especially), keeping track of all of our private clients can be a real headache that we never have to worry about with company orders. We make a little less per page on company assignments, but there's definitely an element of stress that the companies spare us in the administrative functions they provide. Generally, there's also an aspect of direct customer service responsibility and contact with freelance work that we just don't have to worry about with company orders.

I've never worked for a bad essay company, but it seems to me that the writers who are worried about this unionizing thing are mainly writers who have not been working for reputable companies that pay fairly. Those of us working for good companies really have no complaints and we're pretty happy with our relationship. In fact, I never fully appreciated the functions that the companies handle until I started getting a lot of private work; there are times that it feels like the higher price per page for the private work is barely worth the trade-off of handling all the admin stuff for myself.

I'm not the one spamming the board with the same posts on multiple threads in the first month of membership here. Furthermore, all of my posts directly address specific points made by other posters and without any personal attacks or name calling. If you have a specific point in response, you're free to make it; otherwise, you really look like an idiot coming onto a forum as a new member telling another member who's been here for years (and whose legitimacy as a professional writer has been confirmed even by this forum's harshest critics of scamming writers) to stop making "noise." Responding to specific points of other posters is called a conversation; insulting other members personally without any substantive response to any of their statements with which you may disagree is "noise."

I'm just suggesting that if your only experience is with scam companies it might have more to do with your not being qualified to be hired by reputable companies than with the conclusion that there are no good companies in the entire industry. Pheelyks and I both know that's not true because we work for some of the same very reputable companies that never rip off their customers or their writers.


If by "these people" you mean the community of industry customers, I've provided several hundred of them with several thousand good essays and almost all of them have been very appreciative.


I'm not a big fan of the strict rules of this forum either and I've been suspended for violating them in the past. My choice is the same as yours: follow the rules here or find a different forum with different rules. For whatever reason, the people who operate this forum have chosen to make it a tool to help customers and writers identify and avoid scam companies rather than a tool for finding specific reputable companies.

Either that or just learn to write well enough to get hired by some of the legitimate companies that provide a quality product to their customers and don't exploit their writers. Just throwin' that option out there, but good luck with your unionizing idea.

Actually, Pheelyks and I work for some of the same non-fake, non-fraudulent companies. He and I both defend them here against attacks that we know aren't true and he's correct to suggest that only an idiot would claim to have worked for "most" of thousands of companies in this industry. I don't know about "thousands" but I do know for a fact that there are at least a dozen or so that are completely legitimate. They provide quality, plagiarism-free work to customers, they follow-up with rewrites when justified, and they pay all their writers in full and on time, month after month and year after year.

Obviously, you've only worked for companies that were willing to hire you. Clearly, that list does not include any of the companies that hired me because I've never encountered any issues of honesty or anything even remotely close to the "fraud" that you've encountered (since I started writing for them in 2003). You should reserve your characterizations to the handful of companies you've actually worked for instead of implying that companies you obviously know nothing about are "fake" or "untrustworthy."

It seems to be OK when it comes up in conversations for purposes other than advertising. I've been suspended from here before for advertising (admittedly) but they haven't bothered me when I just mention the sites I write for to defend them against totally fake complaints by competitors pretending to be customers. As a writer for some of them for 7 years, I have first-hand knowledge of the way some of those companies do things and don't do things and when I see stuff posted here that I know can't be true, I do mention that I write for some of those companies in the context of explaining how I know what I say I know about their business practices.

In general, you can probably learn much more about anything having to do with this site and any information you hope to find here by just reading through old threads than you can by asking questions in threads first. There's not very much you're going to ask that hasn't been asked and answered extensively many times. And you don't have to wait for new replies in threads that already have 3 pages of responses on most of your questions.

What are you asking? You've earned $120 this month and you want to know how to get your money without waiting for your monthly check? They usually mail out (or deposit) your last monthly earnings the first week of every month. In December they send out 2 checks: the first one is your last payment for the fiscal year and the second one is your first payment of the next year. There's no way to "get them to pay you" your lousy $120 before they send out all of our checks.

Paper check or direct deposit, as far as I know. No idea about PP.

That's a perfect plan if you still actually need to write "drafts"; I don't. I think about it a bit and/or do the necessary research, and then I just sit down and write the essay, spellcheck it, proofread it, and send it off. I've been doing this long enough and I'm good enough at it after thousands of essays that I don't need to write multiple "drafts" or "outlines" either. Never had anybody complain that my work was too "rough"; usually, the responses I get are more along the lines of "wow, I can't believe you can do this so fast." Seven years ago when I was new at this, I used to write drafts, print out final versions, and even wait a few hours before proofing them in hard-copy format. That was about 3,000 essays ago.


In my experience, prospective clients want academic samples in a similar style and on a similar topic to the work they need from me; they're not interested in my recreational writing. In any case, I'd never send anything more recent than about six months old. Why would anybody care about an essay that's already served its purpose and likely been scanned already by anti-plagiarism programs? If a client asks me not to, it goes into a different folder; otherwise, it may be used as a sample long after they've completed whatever course they wanted it for.

Totally irrelevant difference in terminology.

You purchased a membership that expressly says it allows you (and anybody else with a membership) to download previously-written essays that are at least 6 months old and you think that it's a "scam" when those fully-disclosed previously-written essays don't pass a plagiarism scan?

The membership you're talking about allows you to D/L old essays that aren't represented as being new custom-written essays. Those memberships to their old essay files have nothing to do with their custom essay service and no "membership" of any kind is required just to order a newly-written custom essay. If you ever order a custom essay from them that fails a plagiarism scan, just contact the company and provide the proof; they'll refund your money and probably fire the writer immediately. They don't tolerate plagiarism and they scan our work randomly but they can't possibly check every one of the thousands of essays we write for them every month. If any of their writers is actually plagiarizing, the company will appreciate getting the report from you and so will all of us honest writers who compete with that writer for work and whose reputations are being put at risk.

Actually, in my case, it's the other way around: I've always felt that way about holidays long before I started doing this for a living, which makes this line of work ideal for me.

Thanks, I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm totally oblivious to all holidays and social rituals of any kind. Just a Thursday with football as far as I'm concerned and usually another work day like any other day. To me, there are 365 days in the year and they're all the same except for the weather and what's on TV.

I'm not a student but I do have a law degree.


The only thing you can really do is try a company or freelance writer based on referrals and then start with a short paper and a deadline with a cushion on your end in case of the worst case scenario.


All you can do is use Google and any plagiarism detection services to which you may have access.


No. Those of us who write for a living really hate when clients email us days or weeks before a paper is due to ask "how's it coming" as though we spend weeks on every paper the way students sometimes have to. Unless it's a particularly complicated paper or close to 20 pages, we write them the same day they're due or maybe the day before. We don't write "rough drafts" and we write almost all of our papers in a single sitting (or maybe several sittings in the same day). It's up to you to give us the specs and there should be enough communication beforehand to ensure that your writer knows what you need. I hate when I have to respond to emails asking me how a paper is "coming along" a week before it's due when I'm still about 30 essays away from even looking at their material.


Once you find someone you can trust enough to pre-pay for work you can probably also trust his word that your paper won't be recycled. I don't know that there's even any market for recycled papers now that anti-plagiarism scanners are widely used. On the other hand, I can't imagine why you'd care unless you mean recycled so soon that it makes into an anti-plagiarism database before your original does. Another thing that's slightly annoying is when the same clients who ask for several "samples" before they hire you are the ones who also ask for reassurance that you'll never send out their papers as "samples" in the future. Where do you think we get the "samples" that you requested before hiring us? I comply with those requests when I get them but it always crosses my mind when someone demands samples and reassurance that their papers won't ever be used as a sample.

At least $25/pg.

To quote a real genius from another thread where he posted another useless comment to boost his number of posts:

"It depends on a number of aspects."

Read more; post less.

Thanks. Everybody here was desperately waiting for your helpful answer for the last 2.5 years.

Real nice attitude. I prefer to just contact the customer directly to ask whether they want to order more pages or choose fewer sources before I write the paper. Most of the time they end up thanking me for letting them know it was a problem and they order more pages for the order. That makes more sense to me than "winning" an avoidable argument and probably losing the customer for the company.