Should companies treat independent freelance writers as their "employees"?

why do you keep repeating yourself? are you dense? it just forces others to do the same.

once again: I am not here to get advice about business ownership. I am here to suggest a new way of treating term paper mills' most valuable human capital. I am suggesting that you, as a company owner, think about the applicability of these ideas, and treat your writers better than you are treating them now.

All legitimate writers who posted here suggested your ideas are insane and unfeasible.

"all?" hmm. I'll take it from you, a company owner, that my ideas threaten your bottom line, and are therefore "insane and unfeasible" to you. as for any legitimate writers here, if they exist, I assume that they can make their own posts, and that they don't need your presumptive interpretations.

me


have

so, then, pheelyks, how do you feel about the above 4 points, and attendant 3 possible funding sources? do they seem unfeasible? insane?

Short answer: yes.


I make well over 50% of what the customer pays for most of my papers. The rest goes to operating costs and the owners' profits. Yes, the site owner probably make more each year than I do, but that's what ownership is all about. I plan on being an owner of some sort someday, and am not a Marxist.


The bonus comes in the form of guaranteed work that other writers aren't able to take. If that doesn't exist for you, the companies you work for suck.


This would imply that writers still retain ownership of their written materials, which is counter to standard freelance work-for-hire contracts in all industries.


A. I can work when I'm sick. B. I make enough on the days I choose to work that I an take many more days a year off than I need to for illness. C. Paid sick days would necessitate lower wages on days that I do work, basically giving me the same level of pay but less control over how/when it was earned (I'll dismantle your finding suggestions next).


Well, duh. But why should any successful business owner not reap the profits of the business they created and continue to maintain as long as they are treating their employees fairly? This has been the crux of your disagreement with other writers--you take it for granted that writers are being treated unfairly, but at decent companies you can earn A LOT of money doing relatively easy work whenever you feel like doing it. This seems like a fair shake to me.

Tackling the problem form a different direction, most successful restaurant owners (including hugely profitable chains like McDonald's) could afford to cut into their profits to pay their employees more. They don't. because their employes are content with the wages they earn, or the move on. This is the way markets work.


Advertising "budgets" for these companies are very small--it doesn't take a lot of money to market these sites, it takes a lot of time. The same admin that deal with marketing (i.e. SEO) also deal with customer service, usually, and the "budget" is relatively non-existent. This would also mean less money spent attracting new customers, which form by far the largest demographic of customers each year.


Again, this isn't increasing pay at all, its just redistributing it. Why would I want the company to keep part of my money now so they could pay it to me later? I'm good at saving and investing; I like my money to be paid at the time that I've earned it.

Pheelyks, you make far too much sense for this poorly-trained chimp.

We have. Competent writers are happy working in this "industry" as it is.

you're not a burger-flipper, and you shouldn't be content with an unfair situation.

anyway, it's really disappointing that the 2 writers here who have responded are content with their fealty, and can't see a better way. I find it kind of surprising, too, because these are just ideas. most people have ideas about how a situation could be better for them. if you don't even want to think about better conditions, there may be nothing I can do here.


once again, I'd love to hear this from you in real life. I can only assume that you're one of those "internet cowboys/ IRL cattle," but if not, you need to watch your mouth, or someone's going to rearrange your teeth for you.

The situation isn't unfair. Again, this is where you disagree with the other writers that have posted here. If you think it's unfair you ether a)expect a lot more from your employers than you have a reasonable right to in a capitalist world, or b)work for ****** companies that screw you over.


I, too, have ideas about how to better my situation, and have been putting them into action over the past several years. My plans simply do not involve convincing website owners to give me more of their money when they have no moral, ethical, or legal obligation to do so.


We have thought about them. That's why we've given you many long answers explaining why we either a)disagree with them or b)see them as entirely unfeasible. Your problem is that you assume you are one hundred percent correct, so that anyone who disagrees with you must be "giving up." This is one of the reasons you come off as a moron.

To sum up:
Major, EW, FW, and I have all confirmed that we make plenty of money as writers in this business, do not feel we are being unfairly taken advantage of, and think your ideas are either ridiculously stupid or hopelessly naive. You might think that makes us sheep, but we're richer sheep then ewe, so baahck off.

F?*k you, punk. You have no idea who I am or of what I'm capable. I am a woman, for your information, but my husband would beat you to a bloody pulp and snap you in half. Pansy.

editor75,
Your ideas are not down to earth for sure. You list the things to make the writer's life better, but fail to answer one simple question "why would someone bother"?

Yes, writers are the main asset of a company, however there is no deficit of writers, far from it.
By offering to introduce "paid sick days" you compromise the whole point of freelancing, as this will inevitably make you account for your "sick days" as you would to your offline boss.

A Pakistani writer I am ready to team up with other writers so as to defy the tricks of substandard companies....

Any takers? :-)

WHAT?

I, for one, am going to have to decline your offer. You see, I honestly do not understand what you are trying to say. Your English language communication skills are "substandard." :)

as long as you keep assuming you know things about strangers on the internet, you're going to look like a dimwit and a jerk.

since you like wordplay so much, I'm sure you've heard the "make an ass out of u and me" thing.


more tough talk on the internet...

Name the time and place anywhere on the West Coast, b*itch.

and now, the address of your company, please.

I don't own a company, you clueless, assumptive twit!

You're right. I assumed that because you are desperate to get your bosses to give you more money and I'm not, I must make more than you. Lay it on the line: how much did you make last year? Or, what's your average weekly take during the busy season?

I'm sorry, what did you just ask me, trash?

I like your general drift, Meo, but it appears to be very unpopular here to talk about organizing writers. most of these people are company owners.

Ah, the return of rationale debate.

Other than commenting on the lack of intelligence evident in your posts, I have refrained from personal insults. Your position would be better served if you did the same.

What I asked you, most rational, fair-minded, and visionary one, is how much you make, per week and/or per year? I cleared over eighty thousand last year, working less than 40hrs a week when averaged over the entire year.


talking about anything isn't unpopular here. Many individuals bring up the idea of forming a writer's collective, a union, a company for and by writers, etc. After engaging in actual debates, where knowledge and logic are used to form and counter opinions, these individuals either changed their minds or left. They weren't "unpopular" because of their ideas, their ideas were simply flawed. As are yours.

I was taught that only trash ask that kind of question... nothing personal.

sorry, Meo, but, despite appearances, this board isn't the best place for writers to organize. it's dominated by racist, anti-social company owners. you can't even really blame them for their misbehavior... no more than you can blame rats on a sinking ship for theirs.

Yes, in normal polite society it is rude to discuss who earns what. In a debate about whether or not a certain position earns a fair wage, and when the relative wealth of two of the debaters has been called into question, it is perfectly relevant.

For someone who seems so passionate (r at least long winded) about their cause, you seem strangely reluctant to provide or respond to any concrete facts pertinent to the situation.

I don't want your excuses. my finances are none of your business, and I would never dare ask a stranger that question, even within the context of a debate on which it has absolutely no bearing.

I admit that my ideas aren't perfect-- I was hoping to stimulate some debate in this pit about better ideas, rather than initiate a witch-hunt/flame war. looking back over the history of this board and various members' contributions, this seems to have been rather over-optimistic of me.

What about this site gives it the appearance of being a good (let alone the best) place for writers to organize?


please provide an example of what you consider a racist comment


the fact that people keep engaging with you despite the fact that your arguments don't go anywhere and don't change is actually evidence of extreme sociability. The fact that people disagree with you doesn't make them disturbed....unless you want to get into the whole, "I'm sane, and the rest of the world is crazy" argument.

for some reason, all of my posts in other threads come here. in another thread, Major and others are piling racist abuse on someone named Meo. you can go there and see for yourself.


don't make me laugh.

You have stimulated debate. Your problem is that you can't keep up with your end of that debate. "Debate" means that there will be disagreement, and I (and others) have supplied very rational, lucid disagreements with your points that you have failed to respond to in a similar manner.

Yesterday, I pointed out my specific problems with you specific suggestions, as requested. In a debate, this would be your turn to do the same--tell me why my responses to your suggestions are incorrect, flawed, etc. Instead, you start name calling and become a defensive little whiner. That's not a debate, that's a schoolyard fight that you got trounced in.

OK...


wait, what? really?

for a debate, no one has put in much time addressing any of this. note that I didn't say "destroying," I said "addressing." in other words, feel free to tear parts down, as long as you put something else up.

"My overlords pay me jack **** which is why I'm trying to convince you writers with real skills and decent incomes to join with me in my crusade against....well, capitalism in general. Recent readers of the Communist Manifesto unite!"

I told you how much I made...something I debated long and hard about before doing. It is entirely relevant to this debate, and there are times when the boundaries of politeness can be crossed in order to establish necessary facts. I suggested that I was better off than you, and your response implied that I was mistaken. At that point, our income became a relevant issue. Sorry if you can't handle that without wetting yourself in horror.

Actually, this is the post from yesterday that I was referring to, in which I address specifically this line by line:

When you want "other ideas," you mean "other methods for achieving what I want," not "other ideas about what I should or have a right to want." I don;t agree with your basic concept, for the above reasons, so I will not be providing alternative methods for making thsoe concepts a reality.


I'm sorry your arguments are so easily destructible. I don;t know how to address them without pointing out their many flaws, however. What would you like me to say--"nice effort?"

yes, I'm sure you debated long and hard. as to why it doesn't matter, I'm not in the same industry as you are. as to your "response," as I said, if you're just going to snipe all of my ideas and not add anything of your own, it's hardly a productive debate, is it? or is that what you think a debate is?

Then a) what is your interest in organizing writers, and b) where do you get information regarding how the industry/individual companies work?

Pheelyks, I think it's about time that we stop feeding the animal.

P-- a) the better question is, what's yours? b) people talk.

WB-- leaving me alone is the most sensible idea I've seen from you in some time.

none


oooh, how mysterious. There's nothing like a great deal of subterfuge and rhetoric when it comes to a nice, rational debate.

FU, pansy.


Answering a question with a question-the practice of a clueless loser.


Excellent evidence!

still sniping, I see. that's your style. mine is to put out ideas, and watch them get sniped by destructive people without anything better to add.