Should companies treat independent freelance writers as their "employees"?

Moronic, clueless, impossible, unreasonable, senseless, impractical, law-violating ideas that have been thoroughly dismantled by numerous writers, business owners, and commenters . . . .

keep digging yourself deeper. I'm going to go make pierogies. sweet dreams!

I have several times in the past hour tried to elicit a direct, rational response from you. As soon as you decide to come up with one, we can keep trading ideas. Even if you think my ideas destroy yours.

don't flatter yourself.

Clueless, chickens-i* loser . . . .

Let me write it down; people will be awed any time I post this as my evidence ;).

Indeed, academic journal authors frequently site "the grapevine," "little bird," "fly on the wall," and "I heard" as reputable sources.

keep laughing, and keep taking the lion's share of your writers' profits... apparently, they are fine with making 80K when they could be making 120K, defining a "bonus" as getting papers to do when they have the flu, etc. with saps like that, you can do no wrong... which, ironically, is all you seem to want to do. you and Major act like a couple of cackling scavengers-- it's no wonder, since you've built your thrones on pure profit, and don't produce anything useful. it has made your skills at expressing yourselves extremely atrophied-- you sound like a couple of fifth-graders.

Right; everyone who invested $400 in building an essay writing-related website is sitting on a throne because all they needed to do was to build a website and money is pouring in.

Try it; it's so 'simple' after all. Go to a getacoder.com or similar, describe what kind of website you want, enter your budget, and voilà!

And please don't report your earnings because pheelyks might get jealous.

I already am.

WritersBeware, I am really awe-struck by the research you've (presumably) done here. This is very useful.
I read somewhere a post by you stating that ESL writers should admit their limits, etc.

I would also like to tell you that honest writers who tell everything about them, their background, etc. are unable to attract customers/employers in the first place, because we kind of sting them and they run away before even giving us a try. I have faced this situation many a time.

That's a part of doing honest business in the AMERICAN research industry.

haha! who's a moron?

also, you have no idea what I do for a living, and yet you assume that I'm a failed writer. why is that?

omfg, WritersBeware, I'm absolutely in awe of what an idiot you are.

1. this industry is based on deception and lies-- there is nothing honest about it, from go.

2. it's global, not American.

you've created a giant POS here, and climbed to the top to issue your commandments.
the doozie is that no one is listening.

That's the best you've got-an obvious typo? Only a desperate IDIOT would even bother to call attention to that.

I don't need to know, specifically, what you do for a living. What I do know-beyond a shadow of a doubt-is that whatever it is that you do (besides being an unqualified "writer" with ZERO business sense), you're a failure.

it's not a typo. ty]o is a typo. I didn't make some kind of brain error; my fingers slipped.

your brain slipped. "peek" is very different from "peak."

I'd also like an answer to my question-- why do you assume I'm a failed writer, or a failed anything?

I think it's because you've formed a sort of mental image of me, onto which you're projecting your own inadequacies and fears. how does that sound to you?

Your mother must be proud of the clueless, hopeless, braindead dip that (as opposed to "who") she raised.


That's true ONLY of the fraudulent, foreign morons for whom you have worked because you're not sufficiently qualified to work for any of the old, legit, American companies.


Wrong, fu*-head. The foreign fraudsters direct 100% of their promotion/SEO efforts in AMERICAN and, to a lesser extent, BRITISH search engines and media outlets.

Where are all of the .co.in essay sites? Where are all of the Ukrainian TLDs?

Thanks, once again, for voluntarily putting your cluelessness on public record.


You're funny. If that were true, what type of insane loser does that make YOU for repeatedly responding and attacking when "nobody is listening," yet expecting a different result? FAIL.


So, you blithering idiot, do you really expect people to believe that I don't know the difference between a mountain peak and "taking a peek"? Go ahead-preach that claim. You'll get laughed out of town faster that you did the first time.


Hardly. I have little doubt that I could buy your entire family.

you're so full of rage-- could it be because your competitors, whom you stereotype and label as "foreign fraudsters," are taking a significant chunk of your market share?


you think that's what it's all about? no wonder you're so unhappy!

Yeah, too bad you can't answer any of my questions, just like you can't answer any of pheelyks' direct questions. COWARD.


Do you not understand simple English? I do not own an essay site, but feel free to maintain your current levels of derangement.


You're the one who came here WHINING about not getting your "fair" portion. EVERYTHING has been about money for you. Shut up.

1. not quite so - it is not supposed to be based on deception as students shouldn't hand in the papers as they are provided.

2. actually, other areas of freelancing: design, coding, markup, administration don't have such a problem, no one misrepresents their location, as no one needs to. so if you consider hiring someone "not in the hood" you should know that you'll be having communication problems due to different languages, mentalities, and time zones.

i assume that decades ago academic writing was similar to other freelance activities and didn't have so many pitfalls, but one day someone was smart enough to come up with a great business plan: hire esl writers and tell the customers they are retired American/British professors, cheat the writers and ignore the customers.

as to global vs. American - I believe it's global as there are many customers from Australia, UK, Arabian countries (Kuweit, UAE, Saudi Arabia), but students of US universities make more than a half

p.s. these are my personal assumptions based on personal experience

A CPP increase is just one of the ideas I've put forth. it's about getting a fair % of money for writers, btw, not about taunting people with how much money I have personally.

And what, in your highly esteemed opinion, would be a fair %? Remember all we lazy company owners are bums who do nothing other than count the money.

I would say a 60/40 split in favor of the writers would be a good start, seeing as how they produce 100% of the product.


you're not a fool, are you? you said "shouldn't," not "don't," so I assume you're not.

your answers:

#1 "not quite," but, essentially, yes.

#2 "actually," blah blah blah,


if you "actually" disagree with me, you should start by actually disagreeing.

as you wish: I disagree with editor75 on a number of points


If you assume so, I don't need to worry lol

btw, 75 is a date of birth? your point of view is so radical, a high school student would have, but not people well in their thirties.

the industry is not based on deception and lies, there are certain companies in this industry, the major activities of which are deception and lies.


it makes no sense to you as your knowledge of freelancing and outsourcing is limited to writing papers for students
If you'd have worked in a project employing several teams from different countries, you wouldn't think so

And what about the writers--like myself--that already make this percentage or more on average?

if you're sure, and you've got proof, then good on you. even if it is true, I don't think that you're indicative of any sort of majority.


I wouldn't think what? that it's global? I know disagreeing with me is popular, but we appear to be on the same page on these 2 points.

His circumstance is fairly indicative of the hundreds of qualified writers who work for the old, legitimate, AMERICAN companies n the industry. You're so UNqualiifeid and completely out of the loop that you don't even know those companies! Pathetic . . . .


Hey, braindead, why don't you answer my direct questions on the "global" front?

the fact that you view all foreign firms as scams doesn't mean that the industry isn't global.

you apparently also view everyone who doesn't agree with you as a stupid pin-cushion. it doesn't make you very pleasant, and once again, I would advise against such behavior IRL.

btw, when I am addressing smirk and pheelyks, please don't answer for them. they appear perfectly capable of answering for themselves. it's just the tip of the iceberg, in terms of your general lack of manners, but we all have to start somewhere.

How many times are you going to voluntarily prove your cluelessness and idiocy?


FU. You started s-i* with people the minute you signed up here. You're a proven liar and idiot. You have no concept of business or labor law. Not a single person in this forum agrees with your incredibly ignorant positions. Tell me-does that make YOU and idiot or everyone else?

editor75
Actually, I don't agree with you on 2 points, only on one of them.
I don't think that the industry is based on deception and lies. There's a lot of deception in the industry, but this fact doesn't provide an excuse for deceiving nor the clients neither the writers.

As to the second point, yes i think it's global with the largest part of the market occupied by US students. Apparently, those looking for a quick buck target their marketing efforts at the most lucrative segment.

we all have to start somewhere...or not. continue to be an ill-mannered biddy, then. it just makes people wonder why you're so unhappy-- it doesn't really threaten or intimidate anyone. I hope not, anyway.

speaking of hope, I came here with a few ideas, not to start an argument, or sling playground insults around. I have quite enough drama in real life.

Your ideas are utopian. If you want to be treated like an employee - become an employee.
If you are a freelancer, expect to be treated like a freelancer.

The only reasonable idea I spotted was better cpp. Everyone likes getting paid more, but who forces you to work for a low cpp?

this is the exact status quo I'm questioning-- who says freelancers have to automatically downgrade their expectations? even if you're comfortable in the industry, you have to realize that you could be doing better. if management had to listen to your demands, rather than simply entertaining your requests, you could be.

You are the only one posting here that thinks freelancers automatically downgrade their expectations. Many freelancers in many professions prefer working on a freelance basis for the reasons I and others have provided in this thread.

Yes some employers will expect you to downgrade your expectations because of the market being dumped by people willing to work for $3 per hour or less and be grateful for this. With no quality standards set, this works perfectly well for these companies.

If you wish to be doing better - avoid them.


With the abundance of cheap work force and absence of commitments to the clients, they are not interested in your demands.

I agree, (as long as)

1. Air pilots (who are also independent contractors working directly with airlines' customers and producing '100% of the work')

2. Surgeons in hospitals (who are also independent contractors working directly with hospitals' patients and producing '100% of the work')

get 60% of all the money:

1. Spent by their passengers on board.

2. Spent by the patient or insurance to cover the operation cost.

--------

And there's no need to mention that 'pilots or surgeons have their associations' because there are dozens if not hundreds of freelance writers associations too.

Major-- apples and oranges

Pheelyks-- freelancers give up a lot, to be treated a lot worse

smirk-- you've pointed out some daunting problems; how can we avoid them?

That's what birds are twittering.

and this can be done easily - don't take up any project, unless you think that the price is reasonable

You keep making this generalization without providing substantive arguments. Again, as a freelancer I:

-set my own schedule, including days off, when I work on days that I work, how much I work, etc.

-take only the projects I want to work on

-decide when and how to spend my money

-make a lot more money than people with similar jobs that aren't freelancers

How is it, then, that I have "given up a lot to be treated a lot worse"?

BINGO.

But editor75 refuses to comprehend this simple fact and is wasting everybody's time. Mod - please close this topic.