Hello everyone

I have been associated with the online writing industry for about 2 years. I wanted to make a few points here. I do not intent to offend or provoke any one, just want to know what you people think.

I very much agree with some of the members on the quality of papers written by ESL writers. I have worked for one such company that does hire ESL writers. I must say there are competent people everywhere. Some ESL writers write essays that are pretty OK as per the American Standards.

The problem is that people think this is easy money so they jump in. And the reason why they stay there (atleast for sometime) is that not everyone who order papers is a native with good command over the language. So the bad/average quality papers are sold without complaints most of the time. And now the term ESL has become such a taboo that if some one genuinely admitted that they have ESL writers would mean inferior quality.

I am also very concerned about ethics, can we use this forum to come up with a code of ethics for the industry. A code that would address concerns from every quarter, the faculty, the students, service providers (websites) and writers.

P.S.I am new here and English is not my first language, but I feel I am reasonably proficient in it.

humble

FreelanceWriter:
I did not intend to impose my opinion, I just shared it.

What makes you doubt my proficiency? I know one sounds cool by ridiculing ESL writers, what if i just wrote it to see how people react?

And I want to take ethics beyond ESL and advertising. What level of assistance is ethical to provide? People even get their PhD dissertations done by ghost writers. How about sharing your opinion on this aspect?

humble

FreelanceWriter:
There is a good number of people not living in the US who speak English as their second language but write in it as their first language. Though it may sound strange, it is a fact.

I respect your "opinion". However I also doubt your writing skills :).

I have been in this industry for quite some time now and know all the counter arguments. However, these arguments are pretty flawed. They contradict the way our services are marketed. If we write only model papers why not share them with the professors? why have this loophole? Why all the confidentiality?

If we only provide model papers, we should be working under the patronage of colleges and in collaboration with the faculty.

humble

I think I forgot to mention that I agree with you that one should not hide location nor misguide clients regarding the origin of the service provider.

FreelanceWriter:
:D lets not get personal.
I do not doubt at all that you get good feedback. I already touched upon this point earlier. Many people who order their essays are not very good writers or have adequate understanding of linguistics. Your writing style is pretty reasonable so I would rate you on the higher side as far as writing style is concerned (not the content). If you need some feedback on your writing style let me know. I must also point out that my observation of your writing style is limited to only a few posts on this thread. I believe that you write even better when working on academic papers.

Now are you interested in the ethics thing?

Cheers!

WritersBeware:
I feel there is a relationship between the two. Lack of ethics, standards and regulation are the reasons behind all the mess in this industry.

There is so much of secrecy and confidentiality it only paves way for scams.

I do have an account with essaywriters.net, I never wrote for them as one friend of mine never receive his money. I have also read much about them on this forum.

Do you recommend any company to work for which will no discriminate on the basis of my location?

What about India?

* I missed a 't' in my previous post. not discriminate

I m going into a depression :(

Hey everyone dont let this peter harass you with all the legal jargon.
the chances of any party going to a court or not even 1%. There are HUGE costs involved in in terms of time, money and reputation.

last time ***** Ltd went to court and it was slapped a 700K fine.
So when Mr Peter goes to court he will be in trouble himself. There could be numerous charges filed against him. Peter! there are laws that govern employer-worker relationship, privacy of customers and employers, and personal offenses such as harassment, blackmail and so on.

Those who are affected should expose him naked once and for all. use his name and company's name in the posts so that he is caught by Google bots :D

:) happy litigation :P
Serving a legal notice only takes a few hours!

I feel like breaking my laptop after read this post

I am not an engineer, but I know some MatLab as I worked on it for some undergrad courses.

Which version are you working on and what kind of help do you need?

WB: Yea true

Nee: This is how you should have asked.
Hey all has anyone used any reliable service that could help me with MatLab. :D

I wrote a paper on finance for a student of Brunel UK through a middleman. That guy took the money from the student and did not pay me. I feel so pissed. Posting the paper is not an option because the student will get screwed :( and the person who scammed me will not be affected. ggrrrrhh

akuma: true!

vishkanya: Your could have said "Most of Pak....."

hmm and its not proofread.


d missing

Always read the 'terms of service' before spending money.
Chargeback is the remedy :D
Merchants, particularly the fraudulent ones, have a very weak position when a customer files a 'Chargeback'

I am not an Indian.

WB you are right. However I would like to bring in another perspective. Even though Indian universities are not rated well, Indian students are there in many good universities.

It is like having one or two Indians in every team :D (they are so many)

=========

IndiaDaily - 9 Indians in MIT top innovators' list 9 Indians in MIT top innovators' list. PTI November 09, 2004. It's been a good year for Indians abroad, with Bobby Jindal getting elected to the US Congress ...

indiadaily.com/editorial/11-09c-04.asp

You have a point there.


But why not? If they study at American universities they still use their Indian brains :D.

Oh this thread reminds me something. DO NOT trust any Plagiarism Detection without investigation. As far as my experience with turnitin is concerned it stores the essay with the name of the person who scanned it. And it allows making changes and does not show it as plagiarized if it is scanned by the same person.

Just do original work (there is no alternate to that) these tools are for cheaters.

And there is a great risk in using these unknown tools. I suspect that these tools could be used by fraudulent companies for collecting (stealing) papers.

and if there is a dire need to check plagiarism, use Google.

A merchant would not do that. There is 0.001% chance that he may go into litigation. they would simply try to scare you and if that doesn't work they have no option, but to refund!

Is someone in the FBI?

Anti-spam protection: you can make only one post in 60 seconds!

Grrrrhhh
Why do you have to give out personal Information !!!!
Even if you have given some personal information, these fraudulent people can not do anything. Even if they post, so what! the possibility that your school/employer will search for it and then reach the information and then believe it. not east, almost impossible.

What i hear is students being scammed. Has anyone heard any student being expelled due the online propaganda of a fraudulent person?

Do it soon. He must be receiving a lot of complaints and Paypal will surely block his account.
now go and file a dispute.

LEGITIMATE does not mean there would not be any problems. However, getting hold of them is easier in case of a problem. That is why there are courts. Being Legitimate company is not something out of the blue. There are thousands of legitimate companies all across the US and UK with both happy and not so happy customers.

why are you always on a defensive?
Did I quote you? The purpose of my post was just bring in the aspect that there could be problems with legitimate companies as well.

And now I am quoting


I said that there can be problems and that is why Courts exist. They are not the first option, but they exist and hear cases means that at times legitimate companies and there customers can lock horns.

And when you say fraudulent it is enough to explain. They can be from anywhere, even US.

:D

WB:
Is there any policy on personal messages?

Well, a good number international students do clear TOEFL and they still make grammatical and structural errors. After all TOEFL is 'test of English as FOREIGN Language' not 'FIRST' :D.

Americans are indeed bad at Geography.

Here is a non exhaustive list of Countries where English is the Official Language

ncsu.edu/grad/handbook/official_language_english.htm

Countries where English is spoken

English is officially spoken in: Anguilla, Antigua, Bahamas, Barbados, Belau, Bermuda, Botswana, British Indian Ocean Territory, British Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Antigua, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Belize, Bermuda, Bhutan, Botswana, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Cameroon, Cook Islands, Dominica, Ethiopia, Falkland Islands, Fiji, Gambia, Ghana, Gibraltar, Grenada, Guam, Guyana, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Jamaica, Jersey, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Liberia, Malawi, Malaysia, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mauritius, Micronesia, Midway Islands, Montserrat, Namibia, Nauru, Nepal, New Zealand, Nigeria, Niue, Norfolk Island, Pakistan, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Pitcairn, Puerto Rico, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Sri Lanka, St Helena, St Kitts-Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Swaziland, Tokelau, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, US Virgin Islands, Uganda, United Kingdom, United States, Vanuatu, Wake Island, Western Samoa, Zambia, Zambia, Zimbabwe

Nearly one in five Americans speaks a language other than English at home, the Census Bureau says, an increase of nearly 50 percent during the past decade. Most speak Spanish, followed by Chinese, with Russian rising fast.

boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2003/10/09/percentage_of_non_english_speaking_americans_surges/

The purpose of bringing this up was to let the fellow members know that they could meet people speaking English as their first language anywhere in the world.

And they would not find every American speaking English as his/her first language.
I am really tired at the moment and dont feel like proofreading this post. =)

Point noted Serene :) I do not know anything about "new2009."

Telling you from my personal experience, at times they (IS) really don't make any sense. :D

WB:
This is exactly what I am trying to say. Any one and every one in US can not write as well. The English of all American citizens can also not pass for "American" English. Read the last source in my previous post. It highlights the Census problems because of Non-English speaking Americans.

To add more to your knowledge there are US Sponsored educational institutions in many of these countries.
I never said that 100% population of these countries speaks and writes English. However, you would find a good number of people who would be speaking and writing English as their first language.

The whole point behind this was that you should not belittle qualified writers who speak and write English as their first language just because they are not American. Let the American consumers decide what they want you should not spread misinformation that only expensive service providers physically located in US can provide good service. There are English speaking people in every part of the world. Line should be drawn between qualified and unqualified writers. Not every American is a qualified writer nor is every Non-American an unqualified ESL writer.

P.S I am not supporting frauds or those who indulge in false advertising.

Serene:
Yea true. I like IS they are sweet :D

WB :)
I agree with you on both the facts. The point I earlier tried to make was that Non-American does not mean poor quality, ESL Garbage, Fraud and scam.

American does not mean qualified writers and good quality.

These are to be judged independently of being American or Non-American.

When I refer to English speaking population outside US, I refer to people speaking and writing English that would be acceptable as "American" English in any school or university.

I believe we are not discussing something out of the domain of this forum. We are educating other members about scams. They may have been getting a false impression that "Non-American" = scam

In certain cases Non-American service could be as good as any American service and yet cost less.

I would still warn other members that be very careful when dealing online. If you find false advertisement on a website, it is the first indication of a possible scam.

I do not have any statistics on the averages.

"However, our essay writers complete orders for students from all countries, Australia to Zaire."
Do you know the site I am quoting?
The Site you recommend does not hire Americans only. They hire writers from all countries so would you now please warn everyone about the possible contamination here ;)

I know two American Sites that are involved in Verifiable Fraud! Please do not ask me to name them. I do not have legal evidence.

I so enjoy your posts :D

WB:
I am extremely upset and depressed. Defend this!

At one instance the legit company your recommend says: "Our professional, AMERICAN writers produce new research documents on an individual basis, so our research materials are unique, original, technically precise, and up-to-date."

At another places says: "However, our essay writers complete orders for students from all countries, Australia to Zaire."

Please :(

"Our exclusive and unique Exact-Writer system ensures that we assign your custom research order to a professional, AMERICAN writer with an appropriate college degree in the necessary field of study."

"However, our essay writers complete orders for students from all countries, Australia to Zaire."

My bad My bad. Yea I did get confuse. And for a moment I thought there does not exist a single honest essay writing company and that did make me upset.

I have a slight problem with my eye sight. I miss out commas, and mix words when my eyes are even slightly strained.
And on top of that I have an 11" screen :D

Has any one been paid by Essay Bay?

Julie:
How much did you make per page on an average at EW?

I really feel sorry for you. 950 is too much for a 2500 word essay.

Why don't you guys start making videos on youtube. It will be fun. It could be a hit and may be some production house will sign you up for a series and you both will become stars :D

Has Essay Writers improved?
Someone should go to court and get them removed from Google's index.

Yea I am. I have no idea about Egypt, I have been working with professionals in USA and UK.
Do you have experience in recruitment or have you worked in the HR department of any reputable organization?

Did they ever pay you?

Kat the best thing to do is write the paper on your own.
If you have any doubts about the originality of someone's work put random phrase on Google to find out.
You could also check the sources cited in the paper.

In the writing industry plagiarism is confined to crude copying from internet sources.
To some professors it may include using detection of invalid sources/improper citations intended or unintended.
Some software detect the writing style and so on. You may find a way to stop theft the thieves will find an alternate. They will always be a step ahead.

I second WB do not use any online tool. Especially the free ones. I used EVE (essay verification engine) for sometime but their service stopped working. I also use Plagiarism Detector. They all have loopholes. And most importantly it is illegal to send automated searches to Google. Any tool doing so is illegal. And by using it you violate the terms of service. Google is a great free service we should respect their TOS.

If you intend to use a writing service you could use one that provides copies of the sources used in the paper. It may be expensive but you could be sure that the paper is original.