If I may ask without stirring up a hornet's nest here... are these payment delays related to alleged issues of work quality?

From browsing this forum just a bit a can tell there's an ongoing ruckus regarding ESL writers, and I really don't mean to wade into that. But just as a matter of plain fact, it's clear that in *some* cases you can tell by grammar, diction, idiomatic expressions, etc., that a writer is not a native speaker - and this may be something that a site operator or a client may find unacceptable.

(For what it's worth, I graded plenty of essays by non-native speakers when I was in grad school; most of the time I wouldn't have have known by the writing at all.)

I'm just wondering if I would need to worry about having problems with 4writer on the assumption that there will be no issues with my work. I've been writing for another company for about a month now with no problems - I won't name it in case that is against the forum rules, but it's American-based with a real office, actually mails me checks (kind of retro, lol!). I am, however, looking to expand the selection of essays I have to choose from so I don't have to work so far outside my own areas of interest as much.

My own view as a writer, for what it's worth:

I probably would not accept a job to write someone's dissertation. If the case was like the one linguaga described above, where the client had actually done all of the relevant research and just wasn't able to do the writing well enough by themselves, I might consider it.

In any other case, the pay probably just wouldn't be worth the effort. Term papers, even for graduate courses, tend to be pretty narrowly focused - in the areas of the humanities in which I work, at least. If I'm doing a 10-20 page paper for someone, I'm willing to do an in-depth reading of a few sources, e.g. if the term paper is a critique of a philosophy essay or something that needs really thorough analysis. Or, alternatively, I'm willing to skim 5-10 sources if the paper needs to have limited survey of the relevant literature.

For a dissertation, however, you're pretty much expected to have reviewed *all* of the literature that is relevant to your (narrowly defined) topic. I mean, if you're writing on the impact of the Portuguese language on Lord Byron's rhyme schemes between 1809 and 1811, you're going to be reading virtually everything that has ever been written on that topic. It can be tough to find all of it sometimes.

Even if I'm trying to severely half-a55 the effort, I'm going to be doing an awful, awful lot of research. Far more research per final dissertation page than it would be for a term paper. Now, if you're willing and able to pay a lot (and.. I mean, a LOT), maybe you can find someone who is willing to do the research that is necessary for even a sloppy dissertation. Think of it this way: It varies by subject, but in my own field at least, the dissertation is something you work on for about two years (after having already studied in the field for 2-3+ years at the graduate level). So how long is it going to take someone to write this dissertation for you, assuming they put in at least some minimum effort? And how much would someone with the minimum level of ability required for this expect to earn for that much of their time?

If you're considering hiring a writer, I'd suggest working with someone directly. Essay writing websites take a good chunk of the essay price for themselves. Nothing unfair about this in my view; they're taking care of all the business end so I can focus on the writing. But when it's a very long, involved work like a dissertation, it simply won't be worthwhile for a legitimate writer rate of pay they get through the websites.

Looking for the same information myself. I've been fortunate enough to find one legitimate company that I've been working with for about a month, but I am hoping to find a few more so I have a wider range of assignments to choose from.

I think I just got lucky on the first one.. I'm finding it really difficult to sort out information about other possibilities. Do a Google search, and so much of what comes up looks fairly suspicious. Nearly every site you find also seems to have someone calling it a scam on some forum (often on this one) as well. Many of those reports may well be true. You do have to wonder, however, when the complaint is clearly written by someone.. well, let's just say someone you wouldn't want writing a paper for you. Which makes it hard to tell if the site in question is illegitimate for not paying them, or -more- legitimate because it rejected their work.

Hi Justine!

I'm a relatively new academic writer, very much enjoying it so far. I went the route of working through a company rather than going solo - so far, at least. I thought I'd share my own considerations for whatever value they may have for you. I don't have any experience operating one of these websites (and it seems some of the people on this board do), though I do know a bit about website-related matters from my own hobby interests.

Now, assuming you're just interested in going solo-solo - that is, not in starting a company with other writers as well - it's a bit of a different situation than it is for most of the websites people are discussing here. We're talking about something that is going to be more of a personal-freelancer sort of site. If you decide to give it a real try solo, that's definitely something you'll want. Most everyone in any industry who works freelance full-time has their own site nowadays; it's mostly a 'personal branding' thing showing that you are a professional, demonstrating your talents a bit.

The personal-freelancer website is something you put in your email signatures, list on Facebook, put on business cards, etc. Generally it is not the way that people originally find out about you - it's a way for them to check you out further after making original contact somewhere else. As far as Search Engine Optimization (SEO) strategies for people to find you on Google search.. I'd suggest you forget about that. Make sure people can find you if they search for your name, or whatever business name you might want to go by. But like you mentioned, there are unfortunately thousands of sites that show up for "academic essays" or any similar search term. It's possible in principle to outrank them, but even if you managed to do it, it wouldn't be worth the time and the expense. The "big" sites are places that handle tons of orders and employ many writers. As an individual, the volume you'll be handling just doesn't require the same strategy. Besides, what would happen if you suddenly landed your site on the first page of Google results? You'd probably be swamped with hundreds of requests every day. That's not really so great when you just want to focus on writing.

So I'd suggest, if you want to go solo, that you will have to do some active self-promotion if you want to find clients. If your work is good, eventually you may get a lot of work from repeat clients and referrals - but starting out will likely be a lot of effort to find work. I'd also recommend setting a very firm pricing policy, and make it prominent on your website and clear in any posts/communications. You don't want to waste your time talking to a bunch of students expecting to pay $10 a page and have 24/7 phone access to you. Check out what the other websites are charging and match it, or charge more. You'll have to account for the volume of work you can actually get, not just the pay when you do get something.

All of this is why I decided against the solo route, for now at least. As long as you can find a decent company that matches your own ability, it is in my opinion a nice way to go. Yes, they're probably going to pay you 35-50% of what they're charging clients. Personally, I'm more than happy to let them have it. I don't have to spend my own time and money advertising. I don't have to deal with indecisive customers on the phone or through email, leading me on for a week and then deciding not to hire me. If you've ever used Craigslist to sell off old furniture.. remember that experience, lol! For every item you actually sell you get 30 email inquiries. Half of them never reply when you respond. The other half go some length toward setting up an appointment, but half of those either cancel or just.. don't show up. (Sometimes the ones who express the greatest confidence that they really intend to buy it.) Of those that do, half of them decide against buying, and most of the others pull the "Oh, your ad said you wanted $250 for the sofa, and I know I didn't ask before.. but how about $100?" routine.

Well, okay, it's not always like that. Being very clear and firm about prices helps to cut down on it. But you get the idea. As for myself, I'd be happy to deal directly with clients who had already paid. Dealing with potential clients, however.. I'll take half the per-page pay and just get directly to the writing.

They don't list any kind of per-page pay rate.. I generally take that as a bad sign. Also no phone number to call them up, another possible bad sign. I don't have any personal experience with them, however, so you never know.

I would be concerned about ordering from a website prominently displaying a quote from an article that actually thoroughly rebukes the company (and the academic writing industry as a whole).

Perhaps the "Modest" and "Proposal" in that article's title might hint at the ensuing irony...

On the other hand, it could be a quite clever filtration system: Any student who fails to comprehend that the 'praise' isn't really praise is, most likely, not one who will prove especially picky about the finished product.

Lol well like I said, it's potentially pretty clever.

I could create some weird nutritional supplement and advertise it as, according to the Huffington Post, "A supplement you absolutely need to take." Though if you check the citation you'll notice that the quote continues "... if you want to DIE!" That's a nice trick to weed out potential buyers who are inclined to demand verification of claims.

In any case, as FreelanceWriter has some firsthand knowledge here: How long have you worked with the site, and how have you found them so far? I take it they can't be too bad from a writer's perspective if you've stayed with them for any length of time?

:/ Maybe you should wait to see the final product, assuming it is delivered on time, before doing a stop payment.

It's one thing to demand a refund or do a chargeback if a product you purchase doesn't meet the quality that was promised.

But in spite of all I said as to why you might be wary of going through a website service in the first place, if you've already paid and someone has (potentially) been putting time and effort in writing up your request, you at least owe it to them to see how it turns out.

Say you meet a random guy on the street who proclaims to be a fantastic portrait painter and, based on his claim, you pay him maybe $1000 to paint your portrait. Now.. all evidence suggests that he's not going to be that good. Artists who do really high quality portraits aren't likely to work for what you paid. Maybe you ask some friends and they express their doubts. These are all good reasons to not hire him in the first place. Still, you don't sit through hours of him working on the portrait and then, without seeing it, declare you've had some doubts and insist upon a refund.

Hmm.. really I think you'll just have to rely on finding a good company. I'm not aware of any that are set up to have, say, a list of profiles for all their writers listing qualifications, etc., for you to pick from.

As far as I know, the model most all of the sites use is that you submit your request, interested writers indicate that they want the assignment, and then some higher-up person chooses one of them. I've heard that some sites have a sort of 'Advanced Writer' designation that lets some writers automatically claim assignments.

I've only worked for one company so far. It has an actual office and a few of the higher-up people working onsite decide which interested writer gets an assignment. I'm pretty sure academic qualifications factor into their decision to some extent, though I've never requested something way outside of my expertise (I stick to the humanities, so I don't request e.g. finance assignments) so I can't say for certain. They do email/call me to make sure I have access to any specific books/documents required as sources so they can get the client to scan and send if not, so it seems like they're careful with it. They also factor in a writer's track record for quality - someone looks over and manually approves everything before it goes to the client. That's probably the best model you can hope for until you're a repeat client and want to request whoever did your last paper.

So best of luck! My advice would be to call (on the phone) any research companies you're considering and ask about how they will ensure you get a qualified writer. If you can't get in touch or they can't give a satisfying answer, keep looking and check reviews posted by members here.

WritersBeware: I hope I haven't come across as attacking the writing companies in general. I did suggest to someone inquiring about using a company for an entire dissertation that they might be better off working with someone directly. That's because dissertations tend to involve significantly more background research than, say, a term paper - and I would guess, based on my own case, that a writer taking on such a project would need a much higher per-page pay rate to make that worthwhile.

Other writers, I admit, may have different preferences. But for the same pay, I'd much rather do ten 20-page term papers than a 200-page dissertation.

Dissertation Group Student[/image]I also hope you'll note that in another thread in which someone was asking advice about going freelance, I suggested it could be better to work with a company. As I mentioned in that thread, I don't do freelance - seems like a whole lot of extra work that probably isn't worthwhile. I've been writing for a single company for a little over a month now, and very much enjoying it.

I'm very much in favor of (legitimate) companies. I'm just here hoping to get an idea of one or two other legitimate companies I might work with as well to get a wider variety of assignment options. (This is proving somewhat less useful than I'd hoped as, apparently, forum rules don't permit anyone giving direct recommendations.) No interest, in the foreseeable future a least, in working directly with any clients at all. No other usernames - I'm just looking for information.

/ As far as the quote from the McLeod article, though.. I mean, you see my point about that, right? It's titled "A Modest Free Market Proposal for Education Reform" and it's by a professor writing for the Huffington Post. I'm sure he's just using the site in question as an example and not targeting it specifically, but his whole article is sarcastic. Which does make using the quote.. an interesting choice.

Thanks FreelanceWriter :) And my apologies to you & WritersBeware if I've expressed unjustified concerns about a legitimate site. With so many of them out there, making a best guess from "judging a site by its cover" is the only option most of the time. Always glad to hear good news from someone with long-term experience.

Does the site actually handle dissertation work for the most part, or does it also get term papers and the like? I've been wary of getting involved with dissertations, expecting they would require much more background research relative to their length than term papers. Maybe I'm wrong about that?

Ah oops, I don't always notice whether I'm in the Writing Services or Writing Jobs forum. I meant to ask from a potential writer's perspective - was curious if the site still gets a lot of 'typical' requests (term papers, etc.) given the dissertation focus. But I'll save such questions for the correct forum :)

WB: Again, my apologies for being critical of a legitimate company. I was glad to hear that FreelanceWriter has had a good experience working with them for so long.

I think if you look over my other posts on here, you'll see that I'm not anti-company. My usual stance, given the prevalence of questionable foreign sites (something I think we share a concern about), is that potential clients and potential writers alike take cues from the company's website itself and, perhaps more importantly, try to get in touch by phone to rule out sites likely to produce poor quality work. I admit I do have some doubts in cases where we're talking about an entire dissertation, unless the client has completed all of the necessary background research and can provide an outline, etc.

In any case, no ulterior motives here - just trying to sort out the good from the bad to see if I might find another company or two to write for. I can understand your cause for concern, but you won't see my trying to snatch up any clients here. I mentioned in another thread that as an academic writer, the freelance route doesn't strike me as all that appealing.

If I did plan on doing it that way, posting on forums.. doesn't seem like that would be an efficient use of time. I'd probably try a localized approach - post fliers for "writing help" around nearby colleges, try to establish some student contacts to get referrals. I'd hazard a guess that there is no shortage of students who would pay to have papers written, and that many don't just because they haven't found any options they are comfortable with. Going out and meeting with some potential clients in person seems like it would open up far more opportunities for a freelancer.

Well.. consider the interest in native speakers in most cases as a purely practical matter:

If I look like I grew up on a farm in the Midwest and speak a perfect General American (basically the North Midland) accent, but "expressing verbiage in profundity of abundance" in the essays I hand in to a professor.. that's going to be awfully suspicious.

Some ESL writers can produce perfect, idiomatically correct written English. But the errors of those who do not are generally not the same sort of errors made by native speakers who write badly. Unless an ESL writer is very nearly perfect, when those mistakes pop up it often just sounds like an ESL writer.

Nothing wrong with that in of itself; mistakes don't necessary make for a bad paper. In fact, I don't think a student's grammar ever influenced the grade I gave their essay in my time as TA - though maybe that's given more emphasis at lower tier schools. If I'd ever received a paper that seemed it was written by an ESL writer when the student was clearly not, however.. that I would have been looking into.

I think it took about a week and a half after I applied before I heard back from them. Not sure what their policy is regarding when/if they let someone know if they aren't being approved.

Lol, you said it on that one. Nursing papers have given me so much amusement. So much about 'leadership' and the role of nurses as leaders in the community and such.

Apparently they do more than assist doctors now. I think. It's not really clear what they do from the theoretical papers and academic journals, which seem to operate on the assumption that doctors don't exist. Although since the 'advanced practice' nurses apparently get doctoral degrees now, I really have to wonder why these people don't just go to medical school.