Mortgages do change things considerably. When I think of what those high-earning months could mean if I didn't need to plan for my summer mortgage payments...

Before or after taxes?

It all depends on how much you want to earn and how hard you work to earn it. I lead a pretty normal and stable (as much as I can manage) lifestyle, so I work as much as I can in the slower months (which means putting more work into getting work, too). I could easily see someone only working during the busy seasons and taking January and the summer months off entirely, though, if they were willing to live at a slightly lower standard or if they were in their early twenties and still carefree. Sometimes during the buys months I daydream about those days.

Still, I would estimate that I earn about 2/3rds of my annual income during the six months of the extremely busy season, with the remaining third primarily coming in the months before the busiest times of the year but with at least a trickle of income running all the time.

You don't find things you aren't looking for, MeoKhan.

There are many writers that have been doing this for many years that don't have any presence on this forum, and I'm not sure why you think it's odd that I didn't know about it until recently.

Secondly, it seems to me that all writers were "invited" to this question, so your input is as welcome as anyone else's I would assume.

I don't entirely agree with you, because I work with clients all over the world and still definitely have busy months and slower months.

There is work year-round (although the week or two surrounding Christmas and New Years is almost entirely dead unless I happen to have a large long-term project I'm working on), but the work is definitely busier during the standard (North American/European) academic year. It changes for worse, though, as more students use automatic grammar-checking tools; in result, there are very few proofreading or document editing job these days.

I've been doing this for a bit under a decade, and honestly no year has been exactly the same. There are so many factors involved that it's tough to make accurate predictions, but generally I tend to think there are six really busy months, three in spring and three in winter, with sudden ends and slow beginnings. There are some weeks that are totally or almost totally dead (about to hit one), but for the most part I have a steady amount of work all year. In the busy months, the work is more than steady.

This is another reason I think direct communication with writers before sending payment is so important. Companies are great for their marketing power and their ability to provide several writers proficient in different fields, but the necessities of ordering from such large entities creates the idea that each page is interchangeable with the next, as though the writing process were mechanized.

I write other things year-round, but this work tends to be the most lucrative (especially when it comes to any sort of guaranteed payment) so it's my focus the majority of the year. I also have other interests and hobbies, and I spend time with family and friends as much as I can because I'm so busy during the academic year.

The writer's feedback could be made up, though, or unreliable for other reasons. What might be a "great paper" to a freshman foreign student struggling in a particular subject area might be a dismal failure for an upper division or graduate student, for one example. Writers earn reputations over a period of years, and you need a lot of feedback to reach any sort or reliable or objective measure of quality. These sites and/or the writers on them simply don't last that long.

Writers can lie, and e-lance site operators (like scammers) make money by generating sales, not by producing quality work. These sites don't proliferate as easily because writers and customers move on too quickly.

Thanks for the info six weeks down the line. It comes from experience, though, and I commend you on that. I'm a little surprised custompapers.com pays writers as low as $8.60/pg if this is accurate (that would be the rate if the writer only received 25% on this order), but I guess that would explain why you got out of the business.

Why did you bother quoting me if you're not actually going to respond to what I said?

Now it takes you two posts at a time to say nothing?

Do you actually wonder why I might dislike you and your comments? You go from implying that I am working for the agent of some company out to destroy you to a tone dripping with condescension and smugness, all while refusing to address any of the questions or points raised about your own behavior and purposes.

I am forthright and honest, and there is no reason not to believe me. You are evasive and whingy, which in addition to the claim that you have nothing to do with this industry makes it easy to think you're lying.

I have one name, one identity, and represent no company. I'm sure you think I'm an agent of one of the companies you claim cheated you years ago, but I don't even know what those companies are or what you think they did to you.

I also have a feeling that whatever companies you may have been involved with moved on years ago. No company that actually does a meaningful amount of business in this industry would find a single writer important enough to stalk on an INternet forum for years. Honestly, what purpose would it serve?

My problem with your comments and claims has been laid out quite concretely time and time again. You claim to hate everyone here, you claim to be out of the industry, and you claim to have no first-hand knowledge of any industry happenings or companies today, and you make accusatory and denigrating posts without any actual explanations. I do not understand why you are here and though I have asked you directly many times you refuse to give a straight answer. In short, I think you're an a**hole simply by your actions on this forum; I need no further impetus or hidden agenda.

There are several such posts, actually. Your hyperbole isn't helping you seem more reliable.


Your paranoia and persecution complex aren't helpful, either.


The readers have to guess about anything concrete with you, because all you have are vague conjectures and snide implications.

I would criticize you for saying "Mary had a little lamb," because this would be an irrelevant and nonsensical thing to say. My criticism has been consistent because your posts are consistent in their uselessness and irrelevancy.

If you said something like, "I worked for this company and here was my concrete experience" or "I think writers should do such and such because of these logical reasons," you wouldn't hear criticism from me. What you post is, "All of these companies cheat, and I know they do because two of them cheated me. I won't tell you what they did but I got them back (I won't tell you about that, either)! Also, you all suck and it's been years since I had any first-hand knowledge of this industry, but you should trust all the assumptions I make about companies I've never heard of before anyway."

Change your line, and my response will probably change, too.

I hear a lot of things, too. I usually only make statements when I have first-hand experience or objective facts, though.

The better option is handing in something original.

Someone asked a legitimate question, editor75, and two active members of the industry are discussing it. If writers cannot even identify themselves and provide input derived form their own knowledge and experience, this forum would be pretty pointless: everyone would be stuck making useless conjectures and vague insults like you and th63.

This I don't understand--what does "one" refer to here?

The question remains why you "moonlight" in this "cesspit" if all you have to do to keep yourself in tremendous horsey wealth is write more of the books that you presumably hate less than you do this job.

"The peanut gallery" seems to be everyone that isn't you.

I never said I was disappointed. I said the idea of living in a large stable and boasting about my successful publications while being forced to work in an industry I despised sounded like a depressing prospect. I don't despise this industry, and I wouldn't boast about the size of my equine abode if I had to do something I loathed just to hold onto it.

Good thing you responded! This guy's been waiting two-and-a-half years to hear something!

th63: better late than never. Kind of.

It wasn't exactly the last word, was it? Nor did I expect that it would be.

Somehow, the idea of a fancy published author with a "big house" (or a "big stable," as you say you'd rather call it--is that because it's where you keep your nags?) still needing to "moonlight" in this industry is more depressing to me than the idea of doing this full-time for another decade.

I take editing jobs, but I never quote a rate until I see the project and then I try to give an honest estimation of my time. If all they really need is proofreading for spelling and grammar I charge a lot less per-page than for writing, because the work goes a lot faster. If what they actually need is re-writing, I charge about the same as I do for original work because it takes about the same amount of time (and can take longer, depending on the specifics of the project).

The way I approach this business as a whole is this: writers are not on salary, nor are we really paid discrete mounts per-unit (we charge by the page because that's a convenient way to present the price per customer, but we adjust our price per page based on how hard the order is, etc). We are paid for our time, and it is up to us to value each project and our time accordingly. Why not take an editing job, as long as you are paid the same rate for the same amount of effort as for your writing? Why not take a math order (assuming you can do the math) as long as the client understands that the single page of calculations they receive is going to cost three times more than a single page of writing because it took three times as long to complete?

It's all about reviewing the individual project and fixing a price based on an estimate of time. This is also an advantage individual writers have over companies: we are able to actually discuss each product with a client before setting a price, whereas clients pay companies ahead of time and might overpay for something an individual writer would find quick and easy, or might underpay for a complex order that a writer could do for more compensation but that will end up getting cancelled and go uncompleted as is.

Did you get your money back?

If you're going to insist on trying to offer your services as a writer here, you might at least try writing in complete sentences.

Sorry, but the votes are in. So long, Michael.

How do you manage to remain so blind to the obvious desperation and jealousy of your posts, editor75?

There wasn't "good writing" here at all, stu4. Did you read the post? The customer was completely scammed by a company that is obviously designed to do nothing but scam. You know all about how that works, don't you?

This is a place for discussion. Your posts don't make sense to me, so I'm asking about them. You never answer, which leads me to believe you're either a liar or crazy.

That still doesn't explain why you've chose this moment to respond in several threads, most of them many years old, about Manuscript Services. If you actually left this business awhile ago then you've been holding this grudge for a very long time, and are still actively seeking out ways to wreak vengeance on those you feel have wronged you.

I'm really just trying to make sense of it. Why, years after the fact, would you conduct a search for "Manuscript Services" and post a bunch of replies to years-old threads telling people how you got cheated out of money?

You say you walked away completely, yet here you are posting on a site wholly devoted to the industry. The way you're reviving years-old threads about this company (which I would think gives them more publicity than simply staying silent) also makes it seem like you just got scammed.

Yes...six years ago.

You claim you do one thing, I claim you do something completely different, and you agree with me as if it bolsters your original point?

See, this is nothing but snide commentary. You talk about how other posters are horrible people who ruined this forum, but you're the one offering no new insights while insulting people in a business you claim to have no connection to. It's preposterous.

I have also spent years doing this work, and have both seen and made more useful posts. You provided no information whatsoever.

You don't simply tell people to be leery of most companies, though. You single out some for special vitriol and others for praise, and then say you aren't involved.

It's a scam--one of the oldest and most documented scams in the industry.

LOL! What a useful post!

furman, according to other things th63 has said he's no longer involved in this business, so I don't think he's exactly qualified to make recommendations. The fact that he's still complaining about two long-gone posters without giving any actual information is a pretty good indicator of his personality, too.

It sounds like the company being discussed in this thread is one that you ought to stay away from. All companies hire many writers, though, and the quality is bound to vary from one writer to another. I would recommend finding a specific writer that you like and working with them, either directly or through a company.